[Graeme]

Depends which feedstock you are referring to. If I can quote the DOE report again:

• Second generation feedstocks consist of the residues
or “left-overs” from crop and forest harvests.

• Third generation feedstocks are crops which
require further R&D to commercialize, such as
perennial grasses, fast growing trees, and algae.

I'm not sure where the feedstock will come from in any case. Perhaps some will come from farmers, who could be compensated in other ways. Can you suggest any other way that farmers could be compensated?

[Ludi]

Can you suggest any other way that farmers could be compensated?

Why shouldn't they be paid if they are growing a valuable product? Shouldn't they be paid what the product is worth?

[Graeme]

Sounds like a good suggestion to me. Perhaps farmers could do research on which feedstock they would be most compensated, and grow the most profitable.

[Graeme]

PStarr,

Fair comment. If you look at the replies made at the end of the GreenCar Congress article cited earlier, other people have made similar criticisms. Reel$$ says that the EROEI for cellulosic ethanol is 2.8 not 3.8 as claimed in the article. And there is a carbon footprint.

Nevertheless, BP has already made the commerical decision to proceed with another ethanol plant. Obviously, they think that they will make money from this new plant.

Don't know what EROEI is for algae. Do you?
[This is probably not known as yet because "Algae are high-cost/high-yield ($5-10/kg and 30 times more energy per acre than terrestrial crops) feedstocks to produce biofuels - although there is active research to reduce both capital and operating costs of production so that it is commercially viable."
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/%0AAlgae-fuel]

Criticism is healthy. If you and others feel so inclined, you don't have to buy a car that runs on ethanol or a ethanol blend. But when fuel is short, and you have no option, wouldn't you buy an ethanol blend then?

Besides, one really ought to give secondary and tertiary biofuels a chance because they haven't been fully tested yet.

[Graeme]

Biofuel research expands possibilities

The search for biologically derived transportation fuels has exploded into a technological drag race among Bay Area researchers - one that could morph into business profits for corporations, entrepreneurs and investors as the next generation of biofuels begins to replace or augment crude oil and gasoline.

Federal energy officials have set a goal of replacing 30 percent of today's transportation fuel with biofuels by 2030. The Obama administration plans to support biofuel research with seed money and to help firms test the new technologies in small-scale pilot plants, build large production facilities and bring new products to market.


Oil companies have also begun to invest in biofuels research and development. The Energy Biosciences Institute at UC Berkeley, founded last year, was financed by a $500 million grant from BP, the British oil giant.

The institute's researchers are using satellite imagery, geologic surveys and market databases to locate places where non-food energy crops such as prairie grass can be planted on non-agricultural lands so that food crops will not be displaced.

They are analyzing hundreds of thousands of plant species to see which ones are best suited as energy crops, especially species that have a high tolerance for salty soils and plants that do not need fertilizer and will not cause agricultural runoff, such as miscanthus, a tall perennial grass.

Sean O'Hanlon, executive director of the American Biofuels Council in Miami, said several sources of biofuels have market potential.

"I can't quite call this a Manhattan project or compare it to the '60s space program, but it's rapidly approaching those points," he said. "We have to start applying this science. This is no longer a research project."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/04/MNUT16RM4F.DTL

[Vogelzang]

I own some shares of BP and other energy companies. They pay good dividends.

[Vogelzang]

A new commercial from BP asks: Would you give up your car for a better environment? And the lady responds after stammering & stuttering a bit... "I love my car... It's not gonna happen" You all get 2 hits for flinching!

If someone came up to me when I was getting into my car and said that to me, Text deleted and then say, "I just saved the planet"!

[Graeme]

Big Oil Warms to Ethanol and Biofuel Companies

For decades, the big oil companies and the farm lobby have been fighting about ethanol, with the farmers pushing to produce more of it and the refiners arguing it was a boondoggle that would do little to solve the country’s energy problems.

So why are technicians for BP, the giant oil company, now working at an experimental ethanol plant in this old Louisiana oil town, helping to make it more efficient?

The interest expressed by big oil companies is coming in the nick of time for small companies that desperately need capital and cannot find it these days in the private markets. Take the case of Verenium Corporation, a small company based in Cambridge, Mass., that here in Jennings is testing new forms of biofuels in alliance with BP. Instead of ethanol made from food crops, the partners are devising a version from grasses in the sugar cane family.

“Any time you get Big Oil into the game, that changes the paradigm because nobody can go large scale chemical engineering like Big Oil,” said Brent Erickson, an executive vice president of the Biotechnology Industry Organization, a trade group.

The big change came in the 2007 energy law enacted by Congress that set ambitious mandates for refineries to blend increasing amounts of biofuels over the years. By 2022 they will be obliged to blend 36 billion gallons of biofuels, or more than three times current levels.

“If the government is going to make a market happen, we needed to be able to participate commercially in that market,” Mr. New said.

The companies also say that as crude oil becomes ever more difficult and expensive to find, biofuels can bolster their reserves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/business/energy-environment/27biofuels.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

[Graeme]

BP Says Demand for Oil in U.S. Gasoline Market Peaked

BP Plc Chief Executive Officer Tony Hayward said demand for oil coming from the U.S. gasoline market “has probably peaked” as ethanol blending gains ground and Congress works on enforcing fuel efficiency.

The U.S. has the potential to offset future higher energy demand with efficiency measures over the next 10 years, Hayward said at a presentation of BP’s Statistical Review of World Energy yesterday in London. At the same time, investment in more biofuel production and the possible end of ethanol import restrictions may lead to replacing petroleum in transport fuels.

“We probably sold as much gasoline into the U.S. as we’ll ever sell” in the first half of last year, Hayward said. The U.S. “is not a growth market. Markets with growth in products are China, India.”

bloomberg

[joewp]

Bullsh*t.

Over the last four weeks, motor gasoline demand has averaged 9.2 million barrels
per day, up by 0.4 percent from the same period last year.

- This past Wednesday's "Summary of Weekly Petroleum Data for the Week Ending June 5, 2009" from the EIA.

Funny how CEOs make statements that are in conflict with facts. That's probably why I never listen to them.

[TheAntiDoomer]

Me thinketh you speaketh too soon too soon Joey, that up 0.4 percent was based on this time last year ,which in itself was -1.4% see OF2's post:

http://peakoil.com/current-events/us-de ... 3-180.html

At last - a rise in gasoline consumption. But this is against a decline of 1.3% this time last year. In general, June is going to be very interesting for gasoline. This time last year we were pushing $4/gallon. It's now about $1.40 cheaper, but headed up. Will this +0.4% rise last?

[joewp]

We'll see what happens. We're talking about less than 100,000 barrels here, a rounding error. If people slack off on maintaining their cars and get 5% less gas mileage for the next year, we'd have a new record gasoline usage, even in the face of $4 gas.

Unless, of course, the economy continues it's downward trend and more and more people are laid off, foreclosed on and their cars repossessed. Then I'm sure we've probably peaked in gasoline usage.

Is that what you're rooting for, Auntie Doomer?

Oh, and by the way, the CEO said '“We probably sold as much gasoline into the U.S. as we’ll ever sell” in the first half of last year', which was proved false by the EIA data I posted.

[TheAntiDoomer]

Oh, and by the way, the CEO said '“We probably sold as much gasoline into the U.S. as we’ll ever sell” in the first half of last year', which was proved false by the EIA data I posted.

Who knows if it will hold up, but I believe so far that statement is true. OF2 can you back me up on that?

[copious.abundance]

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/wgfupus24.htm

[TheAntiDoomer]

Thanks OF2, there appears to be a clear "peak demand" in late 2007. So the BP statement thus far is correct. Time will tell if it holds.

[Maddog78]

Of course he could also be meaning BP has sold as much as they ever will.
Could be a part of their corporate strategy, leaving any potential increase in total sales in the US up to the others while they concentrate on Asia.

[dukey]

who cares about the USSA
demand in china is still growing

[joewp]

The cornies here(AD and OF2) can only win a Pyrrhic victory in this, you know. The only reason gasoline usage is down is because we're in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. What they won't say is that in order for gasoline usage to have peaked in the US, that means we'll be sinking into a worse and worse economic malaise that will throw 99% of Americans into poverty.

They post things like this as if they are celebrating something. Like I asked AD above, is the Greatest Depression what you're rooting for?

Because that's what you're going to get, my friend.