[kiwichick]

@ db

thanks dude; that was a brilliant explanation ; not that I understood the equations

but the end result means that it is vital that we stabilize ( and return/retreat) both our human population and our levels of consumption

there is no point in a transition to renewable energy and sustainable livestyles ,if we continue to add more people to the temporary home we currently have.

[kiwichick]

" We must also continue to go into space for the future of humanity. I don't think we will survive another 1000 years, without escaping beyond our fragile planet"

Stephen Hawking

[Outcast_Searcher]

On another message board that I frequent was also covering this story, a Poster provided this (unsourced) article. The key point is that solar induced global warming will make the planet uninhabitable in less than a billion years (a few hundred million years).

All in all, things look pretty gloomy for us in just a few hundred million years. By then, we'll have to have gone somewhere else, probably off-planet. It'll give a whole new meaning to the term "sunshine holiday".

Given that:
1). The human animal (and its direct ancestors like the Neanderthal) have been around for less than a million years, and written history for more like 6,000 to 10,000 years.

2). The problems we face like BAU consumption, AGW, population growth, etc. threaten humanity within tens or hundreds of years.

Worrying about what a current technology might do in HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of years, even if the equations are correct (and no, I didn't even try to check) seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

Tell you what -- if we're still here in 50 million years and if solar is the predominant form of enery people use, then looking into this might be a good thing, assuming they don't have a stack of new (potential humanity destroying) problems in their face to deal with.

[dolanbaker]

Did he say that he was worried?
It was more of an Astronomical discussion, the timescales are "Astronomically long" so no one should be worried, seriously.

[Apneaman]

The question is oxymoronic. Are you sure your not an economist? I love their new term to describe economic contraction - "Negative Growth". Fucking brilliant! Carlin was right - it's all one big freak show. Just recently the techno-utopians are in a rapture because Elon's box of batteries is going to save us. I can't wait for the reality of climate change to sink in with the fundamentalists - that's going to be some world class entertainment.


http://www.oxymoronlist.com/

[sparky]

.
one could conceive of a type of society which was running on renewable.
the power was wind and water for powering mills , wood for fuel , it worked fine for hundred of years

......BUT !!! the mill belonged to the local lord ,it was compulsory for the peasants to use it exclusively
the woods belonged to the local lord too , taking wood even dead branches was strictly forbidden
the usual penalty for cutting down a tree was to have one hand chopped off
similarly all infrastructures were the property of the local magnate , bridge , oven even the well if the water was a bit scarce , building an alternative would see the perpetrators severely punished ,
never mind if it was build and maintained by the peasants labor as part of their taxes in kind burden

since the lord had the right of low ,medium and high justice
he would judge himself and rob , torture and hang at his good pleasure

[dolanbaker]

A return to the lord of the Manor, possible but most likely it will be more like the "company town" type of existence. For many people these days it would provide an improvement on their present living conditions.

Most likely punishment for breaking the rules would be to be evicted.

Unfortunately, the freedom that cheap and plentiful fossil fuel provided will be in short supply when we eventually start to slide down the available fuel slope. Solar & wind could provide sufficient energy to run an economy that is quite different than today's consumer "use it up throwaway" society, but at the expense of free movement and choice. Fossil fuels may probably become primarily a source of feedstock for chemical reactions to produce materials and chemicals for industry & agriculture, rather than just burning it for heat energy. The biggest hurdle to a mainly self sustaining "renewable" electrical supply is the electrical storage batteries, A cost effective battery system (doesn't have to be compact!) will make all the difference.

[StarvingLion]

Society, society, society...can someone point me in the direction to find one?

All I see is dope, 2 alcohol retailers on every block, dog walkers, scam operators galore, casinos, fry joints to blow your liver, heart, and kidneys to smithereens, ...and the soup line (aka Walmart) filled with idiots of IQ of 15, etc.

The doctors are a complete farce dumping chemical lobotomies (ativan, gabapentin, etc) on the human cattle as if brain damage was a cure for everything.

Mindless rubbish on the idiot box and yet they tune in as if it was sending them gold nuggets.

You guys are hilarious. We have to work diligently to save this "paradise". This costume jewelry for land scam can't possibly end. The dolts won't even put up a fight before being shuttled to a gulag.

No awareness at all...probably 15 bleeping people here talking about this sorry excuse called society.

[StarvingLion]

Ah yes, the battery fantasy.

The few working stiffs left with cargo vans and big diesel trucks are probably dialed in to that Musk bum at this very moment waiting with anticipation.

Ooops...forgot. The debt fraud scam that is Tesla is propelled by another debt fraud scam called the consumer. When the curtain is lifted and everyone notices that almost all consumers buying those neoBMW's are bleeping rip off artists (wealth transfer schemers)...what then?

[KaiserJeep]

Hawaii Votes to Go 100% Renewable



http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/100-percent-renewable-hawaii-says-aloha

[Plantagenet]

Aloha Power! Hoo-RAY for Hawaii~~~!!!

Hawaii has abundant wind power and abundant solar energy. Its never really too hot or too cold there so you don't need to air-condition or heat the vast majority of the time. And Hawaii has a lot of geothermal energy on the Big Island.

I think they can do it!


Where's the plug to connect the power grid?

[Outcast_Searcher]

Aloha Power! Hoo-RAY for Hawaii~~~!!!

Hawaii has abundant wind power and abundant solar energy. Its never really too hot or too cold there so you don't need to air-condition or heat the vast majority of the time. And Hawaii has a lot of geothermal energy on the Big Island.

I think they can do it!

Agreed. They should be a great example of doing it in an "easy" environment. If they get it cranked up well in coming years, hopefully other states will attempt to follow.

The timeframe through 2045 is telling, I think. That's three decades where it's EASY. I'm all for green energy, but the idea of the super-greens that we can abandon fossil fuels tomorrow (or even real soon now) and live in a green energy utopia without a long and expensive transition period are pure fantasy. (I don't see us ever COMPLETELY abandoning oil -- I'm talking the broad strokes here for the majority of energy consumption).

Given how we're decimating the climate, I place a high priority on this, but expenses have to be balanced with the many other needs society will clearly have (and of course, we can't even get many groups to concede that this should be done at all, so they oppose it strongly at every turn).

[kublikhan]

Let us also not forget that this is only talking about Hawaii's electrical energy needs. Over half of the energy consumed in Hawaii is for transportation. And this is predominantly fossil fuels.

Hawaii lawmakers compromised Tuesday on a bill that would set 2045 as the date for Hawaii to reach a goal of using renewable energy sources for 100 percent of the state’s electric power generation.

Lawmakers set goal of 100% renewable energy by 2045

[sunweb]

Every time a person or area puts up solar or wind energy capturing devices the earth and often some "colony" pays for it in environmental degradation. No free lunch.

[kublikhan]

You have to keep in mind pstarr that over 70% of Hawaii's electricity comes from oil, another 14% from coal. So even just replacing the oil and coal used in the electricity sector will result in a good chunk of reduced fossil fuel usage.

Fuel Sources Hawaiian Electric Companies
Oil: 71.95%
Coal: 14.38%
Biofuel: 0.31%
Biomass: 0.43%
Geothermal: 2.95%
Hydro: 0.42%
Solar: 0.36%
Solid Waste: 3.92%
Wind: 5.28%
TOTAL: 100%
Total from Renewable Resources: 13.67%

Fuel Mix in Our Service Areas - 2013 Calendar Year

[kublikhan]

Actually Hawaii banned any new coal developments. The difference in numbers is electricity vs all energy. Coal is about 14% of electrical energy needs, but only 7% of all energy needs. No coal is used in transportation, half of total energy.

In 2008 Hawaii's primary energy consumption by source was:

85.0% petroleum, down from 99.7% in 1960
7.1% coal
0.1% natural gas
7.8% renewable energy

Energy in Hawaii

[PrestonSturges]

It's much worse Kub. Hawaii may have chosen/decided/voted/dreamed to replace its electricity generation with geothermal/wind etc. but that does not affect the islands gross energy demands by much.

I believe most of their electricity is from diesel generators, so that petroleum may also represent their electricity.

Also, Hawaii already has pretty good public transportation, which will be getting more use in coming years.

[Graeme]

This Big Texas City Will Soon Be Powered Entirely By Wind And Sun

There’s a fast-growing city in Texas that also has one of the most progressive energy programs in the country — and it’s not Austin.

Located about 30 miles north of the Texas capital in a deeply conservative county, the city of Georgetown will be powered 100 percent by renewable energy within the next couple years. Georgetown’s residents and elected officials made the decision to invest in two large renewable energy projects, one solar and one wind, not because they reduced greenhouse gas emissions or sent a message about the viability of renewable energy — but because it just made sense, according to Mayor Dale Ross.

“This was a business decision and it was a no-brainer,” Ross told ThinkProgress from his office along one of the city’s main thoroughfares. “This is a long-term source of power that creates cost certainty, brings economic development, uses less water, and helps the environment.”

In a state better known for what it prospects for underground, Texas has one of the best aboveground renewable energy profiles in the country — especially west Texas, where the wind blows hard and consistently and the sun shines unabatedly. Texas also has its own electricity grid, which allowed state lawmakers to build the thing often lacking in the development of major renewable energy projects: transmission lines. As part of the state’s Competitive Renewable Energy Zone program, or CREZ, Texas has spent around $7 billion building transmission lines to make far-removed wind and solar projects accessible to population centers in the central and eastern parts of the state.

By bringing nearly 150 megawatts of wind energy from north Texas and another 150 megawatts of solar from far west Texas, Georgetown is taking full advantage of what the Lone Star State has to offer. And in doing so, it is getting some of the cheapest, most reliable, and most sustainable energy in the country.

thinkprogress