[theluckycountry]

Trump Trump Trump; Biden Biden Biden

Why the confusion?

Biden is currently the president. He's to blame for bungling the US withdrawal from Aghanistan.

No confusion here, Trump = Biden = Obama = Bush = ... that's how I see it. They are just the puppets out front for public adoration/derision. Biden is being blamed but to actually believe he is to blame would require believing that the heads and controlling interests of the industrial military complex, and the leading banks, who all profit massively from these wars, have no say whatsoever when they start and when they end. That's just not how the world works.

[Plantagenet]

Biden is being blamed but to actually believe he is to blame would require believing that the heads and controlling interests of the industrial military complex, and the leading banks, who all profit massively from these wars, have no say whatsoever when they start and when they end. That's just not how the world works.

Please show me the pictures of the "heads and controlling interests of the industrial military complex, and the leading banks" sitting in at the meetings where Biden made his stupid decisions and give his stupid orders on Aghanistan. Show us how the the big banks gave their orders as to when the wars should "start and when they end."

I think you'll find there are no such pictures. In fact, there is no evidence at all of that happening.

In the absence of such pictures or other evidence it would require believing that the "heads and controlling interests of the industrial military complex, and the leading banks" are communicating with Joe Biden and telling him what to say by telepathy.

And there is no such thing as telepathy.

That means it was Joe Biden who was thinking stupid thoughts and giving those stupid orders.

Thats why Tony Blair and other Europeans are BLASTING Biden for being such a dope. Joe not only undercut the Aghanis and the US.....Joe undercut all the countries engaged in the large NATO effort in Aghanistan as well.

The UK, Germany, Australia and other foreign countries are all scrambling to extricate and evacuate their people, just like the US is after Joe screwed things up.

AND that means the blame for the mess in Afghanistan belong squarely on Joe Biden, because he is the senile and stupid old fool who made the bad decisions and gave the stupid orders.


Is Joe Biden secretly in telepathic communication with Big banks and heads and controlling interests of the military industrial complex when he says and does stupid things?......Nope....old Joe is always stupid and senile and he does it without any help from Telepathy.

Cheers!

[evilgenius]

It's like Biden said, there is no compelling reason for the US to be in Afghanistan. The US military went in to either stop or capture Bin Laden and any terrorist endeavors associated with him. The Taliban "harbored" Bin Laden. I guess that means that it is ok to misconstrue the situation, and stay in Afghanistan for 20 years. It is ok to use the violation of the Taliban of conspiracy to commit terrorism to stay, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a swipe at trying to topple the easy to strike target in retaliation rather than the hard to strike but much more pertinent target.

As far as nation building goes, what sort of nation building could take place under those circumstances? I think it is obvious that you won't get the all out kind. That's not PC. Since you need the all out kind, because something needs to change about the way the people think, leaving at any time is equal to leaving at the same time. It doesn't matter when they left. What you see happening would have happened then too. All of those people should have gambled differently, it seems. It is gambling, since they based their lives upon an American promise that anybody should be able to see was based upon a dangling premise whose life line was in danger of snapping at any point. The absence of any real mandate to be there was glaring.

IMO the whole concept of "nation building" is a losing proposition. Somehow we spend blood and treasure "nation building" but the pest holes we "build" turn back into pest holes ASAP once our government decides they have wasted enough blood and treasure on someone pet project.

Nicaragua. Venezuela. Haiti. South Vietnam. Somalia. AT different times under different presidents of all parties these places and more have been invaded and/or co-opted by the USA and look at what happened the moment we left. Chaos came back amplified by resentment for our interventionist policies. Most of them eventually became stable in some sense of the term stable but none of them closely resemble what our politicians claimed they were making them into. Afghanistan is just the most recent screw up, it is hardly in a class all its own.

I think that America doesn't understand how to engage with other countries. Everything the US does is more calculated that the citizens think because the people are used to thinking that whatever causes the society in the US to succeed is also going forward in whatever place the US has invaded. Military intervention doesn't work like that.

To start with, opportunity is limited under military intervention. The only people starting up businesses have probably been approved somehow. To be on the wrong end of that is to be on the wrong end of something that has all of the funding it will ever need to succeed, while you grovel for support. A lot of the time, that money represents corruption. Americans like to follow the money. It doesn't lead to the same place under military intervention as it does during normal civilian life.

Something about normal American expectations allows these things to go on. Americans are lied to because it is easy to lie to them. Even when they realize what is going on, Americans don't have a ready political structure to deal with what is happening. They are more likely to go after conspiracy theories and some obvious offenders than to change anything about the way they think.

[Newfie]

Evil said;

Americans don't have a ready political structure to deal with what is happening.

BINGO!!!

This 2 party system has reduced us to “he said/she said” marital style squabbling.

It needs to go, but I have no hope.

[dissident]

Evil said;

Americans don't have a ready political structure to deal with what is happening.

BINGO!!!

This 2 party system has reduced us to “he said/she said” marital style squabbling.

It needs to go, but I have no hope.

The rest of NATO shows alternative solutions. Even though we have two dominant parties in Canada, we do not have the full polarization that is seen in the USA. Having viable 3rd and 4th or more parties even if they do not win control greatly reduces the polarization. I do not know what the psychological differences are but the empirical evidence appears rather solid.

The "big tent" system of two parties in the USA is broken and has to go.

[Plantagenet]

The "big tent" system of two parties in the USA is broken and has to go.

A move towards multiple parties in the USA isnt going to happen.

What is far more likely is that the US will move to a "one party" system where the Ds are in essentially total control.

There is a saying in the US.....if you want to see what the future looks like look at California.

And California for the last 10-15 years has been a "Blue" state where the Ds control every statewide office, have a supermajority and hence total control in the legislature, and send a huge majority of Ds to the Congress. The Rs are irrelevant in California except under extraordinary circumstances like a recall election.

A lot of other states are almost like that too.....its part of the changing demographics of the US. As Hispanic voters move in and BIPOC voters become a majority, states are tending to become "one-party" and D controlled.

Look for that trend to continue across the country as the Hispanic and other BIPOC voters continue to grow in numbers and the proportion of R voters shrink in relative (and absolute) terms.

Cheers!

[dissident]

That is depressing. The last thing the US needs is a one party regime.

[vtsnowedin]

Counter to Planties prediction I think the last seven months and especially this last two weeks have sealed the next two elections in the GOP's favor. What Democrat congressman or Senator is going to have an easy time getting elected with this performance hanging around their necks.
And I see it getting far worse before it gets better if in fact it ever will.
September first I expect the shooting to begin along with the complete subjugation of women and then on September eleven I expect the Taliban to throw a hell of a party along with dozens of beheadings.

[Plantagenet]

Counter to Planties prediction I think the last seven months and especially this last two weeks have sealed the next two elections in the GOP's favor.

I don't disagree with your prediction, Snowie, that the Rs have a good shot at doing well in the 2022 midterms and perhaps in the 2024 election as well. Biden is obviously senile and incompetent, and I didn't understand how anyone could vote for him in 20202 either.

But that doesn't change the fact that significant demographic changes are going on in the US, and these will most likely have significant impacts on future elections.

What Democrat congressman or Senator is going to have an easy time getting elected with this performance hanging around their necks.
And I see it getting far worse before it gets better if in fact it ever will.
September first I expect the shooting to begin along with the complete subjugation of women and then on September eleven I expect the Taliban to throw a hell of a party along with dozens of beheadings.

Again, I agree with your prediction there, Snowie.

And I'll add another prediction.


If the Ds lose the house in 2022, look for the Rs to consider impeaching Biden for his utter incompetence in Afghanistan when they take power.

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

If the Republicans retake both houses they will be able to stop any Biden initiative like court packing or tax increases, but I doubt they can get a veto proof majority to allow them to pass their own agenda. So deadlock will again be the game of the day.
They may try impeachment but incompetence is not a" high crime or a misdemeanor" nor is it treason, so I doubt that will work. The Democrats on the other hand distressed by the damage being done to their parties standing might get together and invoke the 25th amendment and hope Harris can be led into doing a decent job.
Either way I expect chaos for the next three and a half years.

[Plantagenet]

the Republicans.... may try impeachment but incompetence is not a" high crime or a misdemeanor" nor is it treason, so I doubt that will work.

Apparently you didn't follow the Ds own arguments during the two Trump Impeachments.

The phrase "high crime or misdemeanor" has no specific definition. Its whatever a majority of the voters in the House say it is.

For instance, the Ds impeached Trump in 2015 for one sentence he spoke during a phone call to Ukraine.

Biden's obvious policy mistakes and his disregard and failure to consult in advance with our allies in NATO ---who also have troops on the ground in Afghanistan----- are far more serious and far more damaging to the US then saying something impolitic while making a phone call.

Biden is a senile old fool and IMHO there is no doubt that Biden will continue to do stupid things that damage the US as long as he is office. Already Biden has damaged the NATO relationships and destabilized central Asia. China is now emboldened to threaten Taiwan and Japan----who would ever believe Biden's commitments or pledge of support ever again on anything?

Biden is a clear and present danger to the US and he should be removed from office.

Therefore, IMHO, Biden should be impeached as soon as possible or he should be removed by reason of mental incapacity under the 25th amendment.

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

Plantagenet Quote:

Biden is a clear and present danger to the US and he should be removed from office.

Therefore, IMHO, Biden should be impeached as soon as possible or he should be removed by reason of mental incapacity under the 25th amendment.

I completely agree that he should be removed from office as soon as possible but I very much doubt it will happen and even if it did moving to Harris would not be an improvement.
I just do not see a positive path forward and expect a very difficult four years if not a decade as even a strong smart leader replacing him would have a very difficult time unwinding all of his mistakes.

[JuanP]

"John Pilger: The Great Game of smashing countries"
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/533018-west-de ... evolution/

"In 1978, a liberation movement led by the People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) overthrew the dictatorship of Mohammad Daud, the cousin of King Zahir Shar. It was an immensely popular revolution that took the British and Americans by surprise.

Foreign journalists in Kabul, reported the New York Times, were surprised to find that “nearly every Afghan they interviewed said [they were] delighted with the coup.” The Wall Street Journal reported that “150,000 persons… marched to honour the new flag… the participants appeared genuinely enthusiastic.”

The Washington Post reported that “Afghan loyalty to the government can scarcely be questioned.” Secular, modernist and, to a considerable degree, socialist, the government declared a program of visionary reforms that included equal rights for women and minorities. Political prisoners were freed and police files publicly burned.

Under the monarchy, life expectancy was 35; one in three children died in infancy. Some 90% of the population was illiterate. The new government introduced free medical care. A mass literacy campaign was launched."

More at link. I feel sorry for Afghans, particularly women and children. If I lived there I would be 100% focused on trying to get out. What a sad situation this is!

[jedrider]

Thanks Juan. Nice article. I hate all our Presidents now!

[evilgenius]

This is part 2 of this thread, but shouldn't we ask ourselves how much Afghanistan matters? There is a big push to take in the emotional toll. Is that just marketing? The death, or imprisonment, of one person there should matter the same as one somewhere else.

Maybe we are fixated upon a place like that because if we can fix it, then we can fix our own mess? That's a bad reason to be there. It does allow us to take our eyes off of our own problems, though.

As far as US mandates to be there go, I think that was over when Bin Laden died. The only mandate after that was, maybe, to prevent some sort of future mess. As far as I can tell, that didn't mean improving the country so that it could solve its own problems. The thing that was built to last didn't.

[Plantagenet]

BIden told our troops to pull out and give up our super-secure Bagram Air Force Base to the Taliban.

Then, when his idiotic plan to suddenly pull out the troops before he pulled out the civilians went wrong, Biden was forced to send more US troops BACK INTO Afghanistan.

But Biden had already idiotically given away Bagram Air Force Base, so thousands of US troops were sent into the city airport of Kabul, where there is no security and our troops and evacuees were surrounded and at great risk of being attacked.

And now there has been a suicide bomb attack on our troops at the airport.

Joe Biden put our troops at risk through his stupid stupid decisions.

This is all Joe Biden's fault.


Here's the deal. I'm gonna give away our super-secure Bagram Air Force Base and then send thousands of US troops into a trap at the Kabul Airport!

SHEESH!

[Newfie]

Plant,

No good beating up in Joe at this moment.

He wants everyone out of Afghanistan as badly as anyone else, more even. His mistake, and it was a doozie, is in the past. It is what occurs in the next week or so that will determine his fate, and the political life if American for the next few years.

Todays news was bad because it showed the limits to Taliban control. They, the ones currently in power, likely also want all Americans out, they want to he seen as big boys on the world stage and that won’t happen with hostages.

But as seen today there are other elements not under Taliban command who feel differently. There was apparently clear warning of the attacks and yet they occurred.

So the question is, what will these “others” lay hands on American citizens and take hostages?

Biden’s political career rests in that answer.

His “We will hunt you down and make you pay” is just silly. What are we gonna do, invade Afghanistan? But I think it demonstrates that this Administration is rather rapped out, over stressed, being reactive instead of nuanced and thoughtful. It is just a hollow knee jerk statement of anger.

Nit feeling good about any of this.

[Plantagenet]

Todays news was bad because it showed the limits to Taliban control. They, the ones currently in power, likely also want all Americans out, they want to he seen as big boys on the world stage and that won’t happen with hostages.

But as seen today there are other elements not under Taliban command who feel differently. There was apparently clear warning of the attacks and yet they occurred.

Biden has made many huge mistakes and another big mistake was trusting the Taliban and relying on the Taliban to screen who could approach our soldiers at the airport. In spite of there being checkpoint after checkpoint around the airport the Taliban didn't screen out the attackers.....and we don't know if it was by accident or on purpose. How could the Taliban checkpoints not detect armed people trying to get the airport? IMHO the Taliban want to humiliate American and kill Americans and take Americans hostage, and the attacks accomplished just what the Taliban wanted. That makes me think the Taliban connived in the attack plot and let the attacker through their checkpoints.

German media is reporting that the Taliban checkpoints around the airport were taken over by the Haquani network just two days ago. The Haquani network is part of the taliban but they also have a history of working with ISIS. These facts raise the likelihood that the Haquani network let their friends in ISIS send fighters and suicide bombers through the checkpoints to attack the airport and the US soldiers.

Biden’s “We will hunt you down and make you pay” is just silly. What are we gonna do, invade Afghanistan? But I think it demonstrates that this Administration is rather rapped out, over stressed, being reactive instead of nuanced and thoughtful. It is just a hollow knee jerk statement of anger.

Its just another lie from Biden, just like his claim that there was no danger of the Afghan regime collapsing and no chance of seeing the US evacuating like we did in Saigon.

Biden just lies and lies and lies.

In reality what Biden has done is much much worse then what happened in Saigon.

And then Biden promised he wouldn't leave any Americans behind---another huge lie.

But now Biden is apparently going to cut and run, leaving over a 1000 Americans behind as hostages in Afghanistan.

Biden is a total liar, a complete incompetent and a senile and stupid old fool

Cheers!

[JuanP]

"Who profits from the Kabul suicide bombing?"
https://asiatimes.com/2021/08/who-profi ... e-bombing/

"The horrific Kabul suicide bombing introduces an extra vector in an already incandescent situation: It aims to prove, to Afghans and to the outside world, that the nascent Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is incapable of securing the capital.

As it stands, at least 103 people – 90 Afghans (including at least 28 Taliban) and 13 American servicemen – were killed and at least 1,300 injured, according to the Afghan Health Ministry.

Responsibility for the bombing came via a statement on the Telegram channel of Amaq Media, the official Islamic State (ISIS) news agency. This means it came from centralized ISIS command, even as the perpetrators were members of ISIS-Khorasan, or ISIS-K."

The tragic terrorist attack is one more reason for the US to leave Afghanistan ASAP. The US government is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans in Afghanistan over the past twenty years. More than twice as many Americans have died in this completely unnecessary war than died in 9/11. How does this make sense?

The Military Industrial Complex is hanging Biden high in the media, but the truth is this may be the first good thing Biden has done in his political life. While the way this withdrawal was managed is horrendous, we must not lose track of the fact that withdrawing from Afghanistan is the right thing to do. US taxpayers can't afford to keep wasting $300 million a day on this and no more Americans should die there for less than nothing. Bring the boys back home!

[Newfie]

Juan,

I agree that getting out is the right thing.

It is the way it was handled is the problem.

The error is in the past, the consequences are unfolding yet.

Other than optics it is probably out of Joe’s hands at this point. It is between the Taliban and other Afghan actors, the US is in a forced reactive position.

Sucks.