[Newfie]

Afgan report from CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/15/politics ... index.html

So if I read this right.
The US has inserted 6,000 troops to secure the airport.
Right now only American citizens are being evacuated.
60,000 afgans remain to he evacuated.
Plus 6,000 troops
The beat we can do is 5,000/day and we are not there yet.
So it looks like a 2 week effort for the evacuation, at best.

No wonder Blinken is playing nice with the Taliban.

I read elsewhere (Hinduistan news?) that Iran and Albania are preparing to accept refugees.


What a mess.

[Pops]

I don't get all the angst. This has been baked in since the beginning.
Trump surrendered to the taliban last year, invited them to camp David, said we'd be out by May.
As soon as that happened the Talli started buying our weapons and paying our "well-trained soldiers" while the puppet government lined their own pockets with our money. The Afghan army wasn't defeated, they defected.
We're fools to think we could change their history. We only added another failure to ours.
It was a waste, another example of our hubris, purchased on account, paid for by our kids.

Graveyard of empires indeed.

[jato0072]

Afghans falling off of planes midair

[Newfie]

Pops,

I think most people understand that we were pulling out and it was a defeat.

Again I THINK the angst is about the optics, folks had been led to expect an orderly withdrawal. People were not prepared for the way it happened. Especially the idea of having to reinsert 6,000 troops.

I fear this will turn into a hostage situation.

I support Trump and Biden for the pull out. The execution has not gone well. And Biden does not seem to be managing the message. If he does not control the message he is vulnerable.

[EnergyUnlimited]

And Biden does not seem to be managing the message. If he does not control the message he is vulnerable.

Biden?
He is on holiday.

[Newfie]

At the Presidential retreat in Maryland.

I read he is supposed to address the nation this evening.

[JuanP]

I don't expect this to turn into a hostage situation; at least where foreign nationals are concerned. It is in the Taliban's best interest to let everyone who wants to leave go.

The Taliban have overran Afghanistan in an almost bloodless insurgency blitzkrieg with few, if any, historical precedents. The Taliban of 2021 is NOT the Taliban of 2001. They are older, better educated, more experienced, better trained, armed, and equipped, and tired of fighting. They also have more power, control, and popular support than ever before. And they are not stupid at all.

Afghanistan's future is now in the Taliban's hands. Afghanistan is a huge mess, a narco state both broke and broken, divided into tribal and ethnic factions, thoroughly corrupted, miserably poor, with very little modern infrastructure, and full of a large number of terrorist groups, militias, warlords, and criminal organizations. The Taliban's biggest challenge will be dealing with these issues, and ensuring peace, stability, and economic development.

The Taliban has so far established tentative diplomatic relations with Russia, India, and all its neighbors, including China, Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan. The Russian and Chinese embassies in Kabul are operating normally and their operations were never disrupted; Taliban guards replaced the Afghan Army guards outside the embassies peacefully. China evacuated all the willing Chinese last month. The Russian Ambassador in Kabul said today that "The situation in Kabul is extremely calm". All the chaos seems to be at Kabul's international airport, where the USA is in charge. I believe that the Taliban understand that its neighbors will require peace and stability to assist them with economic development. Exporting terrorism would be the most self defeating thing the Taliban could do.

Afghanistan has an extremely important strategic location and an enormous wealth of mineral resources, so, as long as they achieve peace and stability, investment and development will happen.

It will take nothing short of a miracle for Afghanistan to succeed, but for them it is now or never. I hope enough Afghans understand this.

I still support 100% Biden's decision to leave Afghanistan. I consider the American invasion of Afghanistan the worst and most stupid mistake that the USA has made in the more than 30 years I've been living here and Osama bin Laden's greatest victory; he baited us and we fell for it hook, line, and sinker. What fools he made of us!

[Pops]

No surprise the average American is surprised at the optics, they haven't thought about Afghanistan in 20 years. The average college constrained journalist and self-consumed consumer prefer to think we're the shining knights delivering democracy rather than the invading infidels who bought "loyalty" with pallets of cash.
Most Americans chose to ignore another exhibition of exceptionalism and executive power run amok. We played some Toby Keith and Lee Greenwood, shot off some rockets, drank all the beer and immediately forgot about it. Meanwhile the politicians spent 20 years covering their tracks and polishing their resumes sending a generation of "volunteer" kids off to kill hadjis. 3 of my boys went over a total of 6 tours and it achieved nothing.
Intentional or accidental and regardless of motive, forcing Biden to pull out is the one good thing trump did, perhaps in his entire life.

[Newfie]

Pops,

You might like this article.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... lt/619769/


Bringing hack the draft might help.

[Plantagenet]

This whole mess has to be one of the most incompetent, tragic and at the same time funniest things I've ever seen come out of DC.

It is hilarious watching the various Biden minions claiming everything is under control, and they had this all planned out.

I've seldom seen a better bunch of liars in my life.

The only liar missing is Press Secretary Jean Psaki......she suddenly announced she was taking a week holiday. Even she couldn't stomach the lying, apparently.

I can't wait to see Biden's press conference......after all he claimed just a couple of weeks ago that this wouldn't be like Saigon with helicopters evacuating the embassy. Well...Biden-the-idiot is wrong again. Sure enough it actually is like Saigon and there are photos of helicopters pulling people out of the US embassy in Kabul......and the mess at the airport is beyond belief.

Who is responsible for this debacle? Why, Joe-the-slow.....of course..

Biden is the Liar-in-chief. He might be in cognitive decline but he still can lie. I can't wait to see his various lying skills on display at the press conference today.

Of course Biden is also in steep cognitive decline, and I can't wait to see him fumble and bumble through this.

But then the Biden White House requires reporters to submit their questions in advance, so cowardly Biden will most likely select only friendly supporters with easy questions that he has been coached on in advance..

No matter what happens its going to be a grand farce.

I've already laughed so much today and we've still got the Biden press conference to look forward to!


Joe Biden's been in hiding at Camp David while his Afghanistan policy slides into chaos. Just more incompetence from Joe-the-senile-old-fool.

Cheers!

[Plantagenet]

Just listened to the Biden "press conference."

Even the NPR commentators say Biden has been hiding out at Camp David.

So now Biden comes out of hiding.

Biden says things are going according to his plan. This chaos is what Biden wants.

And then, when he finished, Biden ran out the room.

The press were clamoring and shouting questions and Biden just slinked away.

So what will happen now?

Will Biden go hide again at Camp David?

He's back in hiding somewhere.


Questions? I don't have to answer no stinking questions! Afghanistan is going exactly as I planned!

SHEEESH!

[Pops]

Pops,

You might like this article.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... lt/619769/


Bringing hack the draft might help.

I do:

But as comforting as it would be to blame Obama and Trump, we must look inward and admit that we told our elected leaders—of both parties—that they were facing a no-win political test. If they chose to leave, they would be cowards who abandoned Afghanistan. If they chose to stay, they were warmongers intent on pursuing “forever war.”

Biden did the right thing, He said: a few minutes ago "Collapse happened faster than we thought but we won't fight for them if they won't fight for themselves" Maybe, but no one thought it wouldn't happen. OTOH, I read someone this morning who said 'it isn't that the Afghans can't or won't fight, they've been doing it for a thousand years.'
I think they know the most important part of fighting, when to and when not to fight.
We're the fools beating our chest because we have no skin in the game

[Plantagenet]

we told our elected leaders—... If they chose to leave, they would be cowards who abandoned Afghanistan. If they chose to stay, they were warmongers intent on pursuing “forever war.”

You don't get it.

The problem isn't that Biden is ending the US war in Afghanistan. Everyone wants the US troops out of Afghanistan

The problem is that Biden screwed up and did a terrible job of taking the troops out of Afghanistan. Biden misjudged the situation and now we've got thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Afghanis stuck at the Kabul airport in a potentially desperate situation.

Biden screwed up so badly he has had to send thousands of US troops BACK INTO Afghanistan to try to rescue the troops and other Americans who are still there.

And Biden screwed up by breaking the conditions of the withdrawal treaty negotiated between the US and the Taliban in Doha. The treaty is a conditional treaty.....that means that the US does certain things and the Taliban does certain things. But Biden decided to break the treaty and just pull out US troops. And thats why things are so screwed up all over Afghanistan.

And Biden screwed up from the very start by announcing the date of US withdrawal. This gave the Taliban a huge strategic advantage because they could plan their assault around the US withdrawal. Only a foolish idiot tells the enemy his military plans......but Biden is a senile, doddering old fool and he gave away our military plans to the Taliban. And that screwed everything up.

And what did Biden do then?

He hid at Camp David. Then he went to the White House and gave a speech and ran away as fast as he could when the press asked him questions. And now Biden is in hiding again.

Biden is in hiding.
His plans are all wrecked
His mind is senile and failing
And his Afghanistan policy is dreck!
Burma-Shave.

SHEESH!

[EnergyUnlimited]

Biden is in hiding.
His plans are all wrecked
His mind is senile and failing
And his Afghanistan policy is dreck!
Burma-Shave.

@Plant,
Do you sincerely believe that this old fart runs all of it?
America's best before date is long gone.
Now all what we are observing is Soviet styled collapse.
America still has plenty of resources but no intellectual capacity to deploy them wisely.
Progressivism and reliance on debt have led you to ruin.

Osama bin Laden has outsmarted all your planners but not because he was genius only because they were both corrupt, short sighted and stupid.

[JuanP]

OTOH, I read someone this morning who said 'it isn't that the Afghans can't or won't fight, they've been doing it for a thousand years.'
I think they know the most important part of fighting, when to and when not to fight.
We're the fools beating our chest because we have no skin in the game

"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."
Sun Tzu

[JuanP]

"Chinese firms eye resumption of projects in Afghanistan amid power shift"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231749.shtml

"While some Chinese companies are involved in several major projects in Afghanistan, including the Aynak Copper Mine project, which is the second-largest copper mine in the world …

A major Chinese project in Afghanistan is the contract to develop oil fields Faryab and Sar-i-pul. Petrochina won the bid for $400 million in 2011 and signed a 25-year deal to drill in the field, but the project has been stalled, Yu said.
...
In May, a group of Chinese firms was set to invest $400 million into a coal-fired electricity generation project, according to an official statement at the time. With an installed capacity of 300 megawatts, the plant will increase the country's power generation capacity by nearly 50 percent and significantly alleviate the electricity shortage, according to media reports.
...
During a meeting with Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi in North China's Tianjin on July 28, Taliban political commission representative Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar said that it would create a suitable investment environment in Afghanistan and he hoped that China would get more involved in bringing peace to Afghanistan and play a bigger role in the country's future economic development."

Aynak has the largest copper resources in the planet. China and Afghanistan could engage in a win-win relationship in a best case scenario. The Chinese could extract mineral resources and build roads, railroads, electrical plants and networks, pipelines, hospitals, schools, telecommunications networks, and other basic infrastructure, integrating Afghanistan into Eurasia, in general, and the Belt and Road Initiative, in particular.

[Plantagenet]

Biden is in hiding.
His plans are all wrecked
His mind is senile and failing
And his Afghanistan policy is dreck!
Burma-Shave.

@Plant,
Do you sincerely believe that this old fart runs all of it?.

Biden is the president. He makes the decisions.

Unfortunately Biden wasn't very smart before he became senile, and now he's just a senile old fool.

I knew Biden would be a disaster before the election and I frequently said the Ds and the MSM were carrying out a fraud on the American people by pretending Biden was mentally competent.

One of the posters here named "jedrider" used to say that it was OK that Biden was senile because he would have good advisors once he got elected president.

But Biden reportedly IGNORED the advice of all those "good advisors". For instance Biden was advised not do the US withdrawal in the middle of the Taliban "fighting season" when they were all in the field and move quickly. Biden was advised not to stop paying the contractors who were essential to keeping the Afghan air force flying. Etc. etc. etc.

But Biden overruled everyone advising him and insisted on his own disastrous plan and his own disastrous timetable.

And thats the problem with having a senile old fool as president. Biden made a disastrous blunder. Biden choose to do the pullout at the exact moment the Taliban forces were in the field for "fighting season", and Biden's stupidity resulted in the collapse of the Afghan government. Everyone wanted the US forces out.....but only someone as stupid as Biden would do it in a way that led to the collapse of the Afghan government and the total victory for the Taliban.

Thats why Biden is sitting all alone at Camp David. Thats why Biden hasn't called a single international leader to consult over this. Biden knows he totally screwed up.

Biden $^$%#ed everything up, and he did it all by himself.

And now Biden is paralyzed and alone at Camp David.

How long can Biden hide out at Camp David......???? Can he hide out for another three years?

Barack Obama once said that people should "never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to #$%$ thing up" ..... and Obama has just been proven disastrously correct.

Really it would be best for all if Biden would just resign now.

The man is a disaster and a disgrace. IMHO Biden should resign or he should be impeached or be removed from office due to his obvious cognitive decline.



Cheers!

[Newfie]

I have been finding The Hinduistan News a decent source of info. They have a different perspective. Not the same old USA media stuff regurgitated.

The Indians have withdrawn their embassy staff after getting 2 landing/ takeoff spots for transport aircraft, issued by US military.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 00312.html

Elsewhere I read the US has since Sunday evacuated 750 people, including 150 Americans. They had been saying they would move 5,000/day.

The State Department is telling people in Afghanistan to “shelter in place” until contacted by the Department. Supposedly the Taliban is promising “safe passage” to the airport.

The Taliban now has a lot of US provided equipment including aircraft. I am sure they want to protect that from attack by cruise missiles or US aircraft.


I fear a hostage crisis.

[Newfie]

DW, a German news source.

Two German military planes have been prevented from landing at the Afghan capital's main airport amid chaotic scenes on the ground.

Two military transport planes sent to pick up German embassy workers and local staff stranded in Afghanistan were unable to land on Monday because of chaos at Kabul airport.

One of A400M turboprop aircraft flew to Kabul on Monday afternoon but was prevented from landing because of civilians on the airfield.

It was one of two aircraft that had already been held up after a refueling stop in Baku, Azerbaijan. After maintaining a holding pattern, the plane was then forced to fly to the Uzbek capital, Tashkent, to refuel there.

The German air force said another aircraft had been assigned to maintain the possible landing slot.

"No flight movements can take place there at present, because there is a large number of desperate people on the tarmac," Germany's Foreign Ministry said, referring to the Kabul airport.

US effort to restore order

The White House says that US forces in Kabul must try to restore order and security at the airport before any further flights can take place, probably on Tuesday.

A third German A400M, which is equipped for medical transports and an Airbus A310 MRTT took off Monday from Lower Saxony to Tashkent.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Monday vowed to bring Germans and local staff back to safety after the Taliban claimed victory. She also said Berlin would help local Afghan local staff who have been working for German organizations.

Berlin would "do everything in do everything in our power" to get these people out of the country, she said.

In a televised speech on Monday, the chancellor said the situation in Afghanistan was "bitter, dramatic and terrifying."

/https://m.dw.com/en/afghanistan-german-rescue-planes-hampered-from-kabul-landing/a-58881455

I read elsewhere that the US Has been able to land only 4,000 troops. Don’t know if that is true.

But supporting them there for any significant length of time will be difficult.

India had to route their rescue aircraft over Turkmenistan and land to refuel.

I suspect this is a very difficult operation to support, feeding 4-6 thousand troops is a problem in itself. I have heard nothing of how this is being done, who is cooperating, who is not.

There will he significant time pressure to get this thing done.

[Tanada]

Bringing hack the draft might help.

I could not disagree with you more on that one. Enslaved soldiers are never the answer and the only time they have ever been truly needed is when the political leaders go against the will of the people. You know, those who they want to risk their one and only lives and limbs and mental health for lousy pay and even less respect for a cause they do not believe in. The draft riots in NYC during the civil war were an early example of this. For some reason the poor working class Joe's who were working for low wages to scrape by supporting their families did not enlist en masse in the Union army to go off and die just because the politicians thought that was what they should be doing. Never mind the fact that the families left behind would be driven deeper into poverty in their absence even if they managed to survive the war healthy in mind and body and able to resume work once the war concluded.

Americans tend to volunteer in large numbers at the start of every conflict because they believe in the stories spun by the press and politicians of all parties about the glory and necessity of war. However wars rarely exist for short time scales and once people start dying the concept of glory and justice quickly fade as the troops realize the political fantasy of war doesn't nearly match up with the physical reality. The 1863 draft riots happened when those facts had sunk deeply in partly because the US Civil War was the first ever where battlefield photography recorded the bare horror of a battlefield covered in mangled bodies of those from both sides, and unfortunate civilians as well, torn apart in combat. They also recorded the piles of amputated limbs outside the field hospital surgeons tents after every battle. One of my great grandfathers volunteered, was wounded and captured, repatriated in a POW exchange, discharged and reenlisted all within the four years of active fighting. He died relatively young of tuberculosis he caught in a union army camp as a sergeant in the last year of the war and died in the VA hospital hundreds of miles from his wife and children a decade after the war ended. Almost all of the men who fought along side my great grandfather were volunteers because even in 1863-64 there were many ways to escape the draft if you really wanted to. For one thing a lot of young men with young families decided migrating to Oregon or California was a splendid idea when the draft started biting into married men as draftees. The Indian Wars that followed the US Civil War were all fought by volunteers and the Spanish American War of 1898 was also overwhelmed with more volunteers than the Army or Navy could accept. Even when WW I broke out the first rush of volunteers was much more than the system could take and train and a lot had their names and addresses taken and were sent home until a later boot camp space could be opened up to train them. The draft such as it was at the time was more a way of organizing the volunteer flood than actually grabbing involuntary soldiers and forcing them to serve. The run up to WW II was the first peace time draft in American history in 1940 and even then there were easy to get deferments, not to mention that malnutrition in the 1930's was so extensive fully 35% of volunteers were rejected for medical reasons as unfit for military service. After Pearl Harbor the draft system was again used primarily to organize recruitment training and it was only at the start of 1945 that actual resistance to being drafted started to become an issue. However from 1945-1975 the draft remained in place and anywhere between 25% and 50% of the US military strength depending on the year you picked to look at were involuntary draftees. As a general rule draftees make poor military material. They shirk every task they can which is bad for morale and discipline. They have very high desertion rates when the opportunity presents itself. They have a much higher tendency to retreat if possible and hardly ever give their best efforts to accomplishing whatever mission their unit is assigned.

In the days when most soldiers were armed with slow firing short range muzzle loading weapons individual accuracy was of much less importance as volley fire without even iron sights on the weapons were the common tactic. However the more accuracy weapons have and the higher the maintenance requirements of that technology the more individual attention to detail needed to keep a unit fighting effectively and efficiently. Conversely this means the less useful a reluctant or hostile draftee is to a military unit. Even when you come to things like supposedly non combat roles like supply delivery a hostile draftee can make the supply system profitable by losing or misplacing vital materials for not very elaborate bribes.