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Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 28 May 2019, 16:55:41

There's a new book out by Michael Wolf claiming that Mueller drew up impeachment documents alleging Trump obstructed as part of his investigation.

Fire-Fury-author-Mueller-drafted-indictment-charging-Trump-obstruction-witness-tampering

However, the special counsel's office immediately released a statement that no such documents ever existed, i.e. Wolf is lying.

The MSM,meanwhile, is running with the phony claim and ignoring the factual denial from Mueller himself.

We all owe Trump a debt of gratitude for pointing out just how much of what appears in the MSM is "fake news," i.e. lies and spin designed to boost Ds and denigrate Rs.

Now, thanks to the special counsel, more fake news about Trump is exposed.

It is very interesting to see Mueller himself immediately helping Trump sink this latest "fake news" attack.

Cheers!
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 29 May 2019, 14:51:21

I find Muellers press conference today baffling. He held a press conference to clarify that he that his mandate was to investigate an offense he was barred from prosecuting?

Unfortunately I think the Trump Derangement Syndrome is such that this will just feed the fire. Rather than bring this mess to closure it keeps it going. WTF?

Point 2.... he clearly found no Trump collusion. Now Trump knew there was no collusion. So why would he obstruct the investigation? Makes no sense.

Sure Trump is a ham handed big mouth etc. But this stuff just doesn’t square.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 29 May 2019, 15:10:16

Newfie wrote:e.

Sure Trump is a ham handed big mouth etc. But this stuff just doesn’t square.


Yup.

We've moved into the Orwellian world of "thought crimes."

Trump may have wanted to obstruct the investigation....he may even have talk about doing things would be obstructing the investigation.....but he didn't do any of them. Thinking about something isn't the same as doing it.....unless you live in an Orwellian police state, as we apparently now do.

When you look at what actually happened, Mueller was never obstructed by Trump. Mueller spent 10s of millions of dollars on an investigation that he himself now admits was farcial. Mueller hired exactly who he wanted to hire, eve thought they were all D partisans and Trump haters. Mueller even hired Peter Strzok and his mistress Lisa Page, the biggest Trump haters in the FBI/DOJ, to run his investigation of Trump.

If you want to know what obstruction of justice is, look at what Mueller himself did. When Mueller fired Strzok and Page, he had all their emails erased and destroyed their government phones to cover up their bias and wrongdoing.
Mueller himself engaged in destruction of evidence that would tend to exculpate Trump.

If anyone should be charged with Obstruction, it is Muller for destroying the evidence that his investigative team was biased. This would be considered severe prosecutorial misconduct in any honest court of law.

Cheers!
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dissident » Wed 29 May 2019, 19:36:11

Mueller is a D. Party stooge. He blurted out some crap they wanted to hear today and the party of grade A morons went into a frenzy of impeachment fervor. That's not how it works, you bloody clowns. Mueller didn't produce any evidence and utterly failed to build a case. Whatever he says "off the cuff" is worth less than nothing. Why bother going through any investigative process at all if all that is needed is for some D. Party appointed stooge to just say whatever comes to his mind at the moment?

That the D. Party does not care about even appearing to abide by due process shows you how far the rot has gone.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 29 May 2019, 22:49:17

Newfie wrote:I find Muellers press conference today baffling. He held a press conference to clarify that he that his mandate was to investigate an offense he was barred from prosecuting?

Unfortunately I think the Trump Derangement Syndrome is such that this will just feed the fire. Rather than bring this mess to closure it keeps it going. WTF?

Point 2.... he clearly found no Trump collusion. Now Trump knew there was no collusion. So why would he obstruct the investigation? Makes no sense.

Sure Trump is a ham handed big mouth etc. But this stuff just doesn’t square.


I don't know how it works exactly. First, we need the un-redacted Mueller report or, at least, the Congress does. Mueller can't prosecute the President because the FBI works for the President!! The justice department can't prosecute the President because the justice department works for the President!!
Only Congress can. Is Trump guilty of an impeachable offense? I don't know. Is there grounds to start an impeachment investigation? Probably. Will Trump actually get impeached? Very unlikely considering that the Senate is Republican Controlled.

I don't think it is ludicrous for Congress to conclude that there is good reason to believe that Trump did something (actually, many things) to warrant being impeached. The President has pushed the boundaries of propriety is so many ways that I think his actions need to be called out IMO.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 29 May 2019, 23:31:02

jedrider wrote: Will Trump actually get impeached? Very unlikely considering that the Senate is Republican Controlled.


The fact that the Rs control the Senate has nothing at all to do with whether or not Trump gets impeached. An impeachment resolution is only voted on by the house which is controlled by the Ds.

First the house votes for impeachment. Only then does the Senate hold a trial.

Its convenient for Pelosi and the Ds to blame the Rs in the Senate for the lack of impeachment, because many Americans don't have a clue how our government works.

The bottom line is Pelosi and the Ds in the House are too cowardly to impeach Trump. The votes are there in the House, but the Ds are afraid to do it. If the Ds honestly believe Trump should be impeached, then it is in their power to do so----it is their DUTY to do so. But the Ds are afraid.

Cheers!
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 30 May 2019, 00:27:48

Either that, or they realize it's a waste of time, since Mueller found no criminal offenses. The House impeachment is equivalent to a Grand Jury indictment. Look at the two prior impeachments (Johnson and Clinton). Impeached for actual crimes (Johnson for violating the "Tenure in Office Act", Clinton for perjury and obstruction), but not removed from office, which requires a 2/3rds majority of the Senate to vote for removal, following the Senate trial.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 May 2019, 05:33:56

Either Mueller lied or Barr did concerning why Mueller did not pursue obstruction against Trump. Back in April Barr testified that Mueller did not pursue obstruction charges due to insufficient evidence. Mueller yesterday said the reason was DOJ policy prevents an indictment of a sitting president and would be unconstitutional in any event.

Having now muddied the water again, Mueller wants to ride off and not testify about this and other matters. I think he is still angry that Trump would not fall for his obvious perjury trap that others like Flynn fell into.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 30 May 2019, 09:10:56

jedrider wrote:
Newfie wrote:I find Muellers press conference today baffling. He held a press conference to clarify that he that his mandate was to investigate an offense he was barred from prosecuting?

Unfortunately I think the Trump Derangement Syndrome is such that this will just feed the fire. Rather than bring this mess to closure it keeps it going. WTF?

Point 2.... he clearly found no Trump collusion. Now Trump knew there was no collusion. So why would he obstruct the investigation? Makes no sense.

Sure Trump is a ham handed big mouth etc. But this stuff just doesn’t square.


I don't know how it works exactly. First, we need the un-redacted Mueller report or, at least, the Congress does. Mueller can't prosecute the President because the FBI works for the President!! The justice department can't prosecute the President because the justice department works for the President!!
Only Congress can. Is Trump guilty of an impeachable offense? I don't know. Is there grounds to start an impeachment investigation? Probably. Will Trump actually get impeached? Very unlikely considering that the Senate is Republican Controlled.

I don't think it is ludicrous for Congress to conclude that there is good reason to believe that Trump did something (actually, many things) to warrant being impeached. The President has pushed the boundaries of propriety is so many ways that I think his actions need to be called out IMO.


JD,

Mueller could have said “our investigation found clear evidence of obstruction that would lead to prosecution for any other individual, but we are forbidden from prosecuting the President.”

That would have been clear.

But he did NOT say that. Why is that?
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 30 May 2019, 10:00:11

God knows, I'm no legal expert. However if there is no criminal offense to start with, I don't think you can obstruct justice by hiding what did happen with deceptive rhetoric or testimony. When Andrew Johnson was impeached, he had clearly broken "black letter" Federal law. When Clinton was impeached, he had clearly lied under oath, another actual crime. Democrat Johnson came within 1 vote of office removal in the decade after the Civil War. Clinton was in no jeopardy, as the Senate was pretty evenly split and there was no way to remove him with a 2/3rds majority. The underlying offense of adultery was a civil crime in Arkansas, but the perjury was a criminal offense. If Clinton ever again lives in Arkansas, he can be prosecuted for perjury - hence his new home in NYC.

Trump has no criminal offenses at all, and clearly has the presidential priviledge protecting what portion of the sordid goings on happened after he was president-elect, before he took his oath of office. Nothing to see or do here - I want them to quit wasting money, time, and legal resources on political matters.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 30 May 2019, 11:48:45

KJ,

Spot on!
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 10:16:46

Mueller has been a very bad boy..........fraud discovered in Mueller report.

its-all-fraud-deceptive-edits-found-mueller-report

Volume II of the Mueller report contains quotes of various people engaging in "obstruction of justice." However, these quotes are deceptive as they are taken out of context and edited to remove exculpatory context.

One of the instances of "obstruction of justice" involved a wiretap of a phone call from a Trump Lawyer to Gen Flynn asking for a heads up on the Mueller investigation......BING! That goes down as obstruction of justice. How could a lawyer be so stupid, one might wonder.

And then total total transcript of the phone call gets released, and it turns out to all be rather different then Mueller report says. The Mueller report selectively picked out one phrases that sound like obstruction of justice and hid all the rest of the conversation where the lawyer is very very careful to do everything possible to avoid obstruction of justice.

Hiding exculpatory evidence is fraudulent behavior on the part of Mueller and his team.

The Mueller Report is a fraud. It is a partisan document selectively edited to create the impression that Trump obstructed justice, when nothing could be further from the truth. This was an unnecessary investigation of collusion that never happened. The entire purpose of the investigation was to entrap Trump and the sleazy Ds on the Mueller "team" did their best to excise and hide all exculpatory evidence.

Except the dirty rotten liars couldn't hide everything. They've been busted. The Mueller report is a fraud.

Cheers!
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dissident » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 11:11:15

No surprise at all over this finding. The D. Party zealots are no longer abide by the rule of law and due process.

The events of the last 3 years should, under normal conditions, result in the disappearance of the D. Party. The Progressive-Conservative Party that ruled Canada in the late 1980s and early 1990s disappeared due to its gross failures. It never engaged in the criminality we have seen perpetrated by the D. Party leadership. The Canadian right wing re-organized under the roof of the Reform Party and after several years there was a merger with the scraps of the PC Party which was renamed as the Conservative Party. The two-party regime in the USA allows the rotten D. Party to maintain itself forever just by being the gate keeper for the US left. The real US left and not the SJW flakes who worship cultural Trotskyism should restart with a new party that will reflect its interests. The rotten D. Party should not be allowed to sabotage the democratic voice of half of the electorate like they did in the case of Bernie Sanders.

This isn't about what ideology should rule, it is about having politicians and leaders who play by the rules. We are seeing instead a slide into some 3rd world toilet "political standard".
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 11:24:21

Another lie in the Mueller Report.

A Ukrainian described as having contacts in Russia and used as proof of Trump campaign contacts with Russia actually turns out to be a US informant.

mueller-caught-another-deception-manaforts-russia-link-was-informant-us-state

Its curious how many of the so-called Russian contacts with the Trump campaign are turning out to either be from the DNC funded Fusion GPS or from US intelligence agencies.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 13:40:19

KaiserJeep wrote:God knows, I'm no legal expert. However if there is no criminal offense to start with, I don't think you can obstruct justice by hiding what did happen with deceptive rhetoric or testimony.


Legally wrong, I suspect. Logically, if Congress supoena's you and you don't show, Congress should suspect you are hiding something illegal and/or unconstitutional and, if the President is involved, impeachment is justified.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 16:50:06

Maybe you don't show up because there is nothing new to add that you haven't already discussed with Congress. Didn't seem to bother Eric Holder who was held in contempt of Congress and is out there giving speaking engagements. Democrats, if they were intelligent aren't going to like where AG Barr is going to go with this investigation of how this circus got started.

Unlike Obama, Trump never invoked executive privilege a single time during the Mueller investigation, even though he was legally entitled to its protection. Millions of documents were provided and Trump placed no restrictions on what interviews could be done with his staff.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Revi » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 12:57:28

I think Pelosi is right. They should start proceedings with the aim of digging up more dirt about his finances, etc. Not necessarily to impeach yet. If a lot of the nefarious dealings are exposed it will help the Democratic candidate.

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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 14:53:57

So you want to use taxpayers money to win a presidential election? What a great use of our money.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 14:55:58

Revi, it's obvious that you simply wallow in the partisanship and filthy mud-slinging politics. It's a free country, you are welcome to it.

Some of us feel a great distaste with politics today. We would rather see them debate the issues cleanly in a fair forum. Because you know what? There is nobody but NOBODY who can throw mud and feces the way a 900lb gorilla like Trump can. It doesn't matter whether Trump is debating one Democrat or the whole 2-dozen-odd field of Democrats, he will win in a dirty fight.

But I don't want to see that. I want to see the R's and the D's hugging and kissing and then settling down and working.
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Re: Special Counsel Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 15:05:38

Personally I would rather the congress did their jobs of repealing bad legislation and paying the bills that messing around with pointless time wasting political BS that does nothing except reveal just how incompetent they really are.
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