[bratticus]

In the 70's Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House.

How come Obama's White House doesn't have them back up there now?

Isn't it about time to put them back on?

Go to:

http://www.SolarOnTheWhiteHouse.com/

to sign the petition.

[mos6507]

Great poll. I'm all for this.

[Tanada]

Solar panels, a small wind turbine, super insulation, ground source heating and cooling system. That place should be the most energy efficient palace on Earth.

[Ludi]

There used to be greenhouses on the White House.

c. 1890


http://www.whitehousehistory.org/whha_c ... rship.html

From the photo, it looks like food production at the White House was extensive.

[Pretorian]

I dont want to piss in anyone's pie here, but pollution associated with production, maintenance and destruction of all those panels and batteries nullify all possible beneficial effects that can come from usage of it. One thing is if it cost a fortune to connect your doomstead to powerlines, than its surely worth doing, othervise its nothing but the usual prius-like hypocracy.

As for the White House, I think they should install a small nuclear reactor there. First, its a reliable energy source, second, its the cleanest energy available on this planet so far, aside of sunlight of course, and third, there is always a chance that it will obamanize all downtown DC.

[JimG]

Wow...those greenhouses look gorgeous...too bad they're all gone now. Feh!

Why bother w/ solar panels...or a victory garden for the White House. Washington DC - for good or bad- is the biggest terror target on the planet.

Sadly - come the jihadists, or the revolution, it will be the first to go.

If I was Obama - I'd put the solar panels in again - and make a HUGE PR event out of it. Really.

[PeakOiler]

There used to be greenhouses on the White House.

c. 1890


http://www.whitehousehistory.org/whha_c ... rship.html

From the photo, it looks like food production at the White House was extensive.

That is an amazing photo, Ludi. Thanks for the link.

Yes, solar water heaters should be the first new equipment installed at the
Whitehouse. After all, they should have enough copper pipe from all the houses they recently bought...
Where's the copper tanks for the micro brewery? lol

[mos6507]

pollution associated with production, maintenance and destruction of all those panels and batteries nullify all possible beneficial effects that can come from usage of it.

I'd believe that if the panels were only on there until the 2012 when the inevitable republican moves in and tears them down in favor of a pumpjack in the backyard.

[Ludi]

the 2012 when the inevitable republican moves in

Ain't gonna happen (my Bold Prediction )

[mos6507]

Ain't gonna happen (my Bold Prediction )

Okay, TEA PARTY candidate moves in (just as bad if not worse).

[Pretorian]

pollution associated with production, maintenance and destruction of all those panels and batteries nullify all possible beneficial effects that can come from usage of it.

I'd believe that if the panels were only on there until the 2012 when the inevitable republican moves in and tears them down in favor of a pumpjack in the backyard.

I am glad you agreed that republicans have more common sense than democrats.
But you dont have to wait, i'm sure you have a calculator imbedded in your windows somewhere.

[americandream]

Certainly beats the calculator you have EMMMMMMbedded in your fascist corporatist loving noggin, Lech.

pollution associated with production, maintenance and destruction of all those panels and batteries nullify all possible beneficial effects that can come from usage of it.

I'd believe that if the panels were only on there until the 2012 when the inevitable republican moves in and tears them down in favor of a pumpjack in the backyard.

I am glad you agreed that republicans have more common sense than democrats.
But you dont have to wait, i'm sure you have a calculator imbedded in your windows somewhere.

[mos6507]

I am glad you agreed that republicans have more common sense than democrats.

Hardly. I just know which way the wind is blowing.

[IslandCrow]

Okay, TEA PARTY candidate moves in (just as bad if not worse).

They should put solar water heaters in.

Apart from being the most efficient use of solar power, the water should be hot enough for an American to make tea*. Really, mixing tea with sea water and calling that a TEA PARTY is just beyond belief.


* for me the water should be boiling before it is poured onto the tea leaves.

Thanks Ludi for the lovely picture. Shows what can be done, and it is returning to the tried past.

[AgentR]

I selected "no"; mostly because I'm completely unimpressed by overt symbolism; and I'm pretty sure that the panels would be removed and discarded long before they could reach a positive return.

You want to impress me with solar?

Use that money to install panels on modest income people's homes who have been living in the same home and paying the mortgage for at least 10 years. Panels are much more likely to remain in place for their lifetime, and have a decent chance to have a positive return.

*panels - either electric or water/heat... same argument.

[AgentR]

There used to be greenhouses on the White House.

Now there's something worthwhile.
At least the chefs at the white house would be well served by such.

[Frank]

Actually there were supposed to be solar panels reinstalled on a greenhouse somewhere on the grounds a couple of years ago; not sure what ever happened...

Pretorian: several studies have shown that EROEI is 2-3 years on solar panels. Given a lifespan many times that (25-30 years guaranteed output - I'm guessing 40-50 years actual) the energy payback is well worthwhile. They will also save a ton of money.

[dinopello]

The new vegetable gardens and honey bee operations that the FLOTUS has going on the White House lawn are pretty cool, I think.

Doesn't the White House already have its own nuclear generator or something?

[Pretorian]

Pretorian: several studies have shown that EROEI is 2-3 years on solar panels.

Really? Probably footnotes of some 9 year old's science fair project became public . Even if true , which is more than not likely, I was talking about general pollution and not just energy haggling.

Given a lifespan many times that (25-30 years guaranteed output - I'm guessing 40-50 years actual) the energy payback is well worthwhile. They will also save a ton of money.

Save a ton of money? How? You mean you won't have to pay electric bill if you'll pay it beforehand for 25 years ahead? Dude, just give me those 20K and I'll pay your electric bill for 25 years ( or for whatever number of years they will last) + will give you 20% of it in cash monthly, assuming that you consume as much as that system can produce..

[Frank]

Pretorian: Most solar panels installed today are grid-tied i.e. no batteries. Once installed they sit quietly doing their job and will probably still be doing so 40+ years from now. I don't understand your statement about pollution. How can burning coal when you don't have to be better?

From Wikipedia ("Photovoltaics")

"Life-cycle analyses show that the energy intensity of typical solar photovoltaic technologies is rapidly evolving. In 2000 the energy payback time was estimated as 8 to 11 years[77], but more recent studies suggest that technological progress has reduced this to 1.5 to 3.5 years for crystalline silicon PV systems[71].

Thin film technologies now have energy pay-back times in the range of 1-1.5 years (S.Europe).[71] With lifetimes of such systems of at least 30 years[citation needed], the EROEI is in the range of 10 to 30. They thus generate enough energy over their lifetimes to reproduce themselves many times (6-31 reproductions, the EROEI is a bit lower) depending on what type of material, balance of system (or BOS), and the geographic location of the system."

Return on Investment: run the numbers. It all depends on how much electricity costs and how long you panels will last. We currently pay $.22/kwh. I just installed a 3.68kw nominal system.

Using the fully installed (approximate) price and a 40 year life, at $.30/kwh average electricity cost (which is probably low) and this calculator: http://www.money-zine.com/Calculators/I ... alculator/:

Original investment: $19,500
Total return: 57,400
RoI: 194%
Simple annual RoI: 4.9%

The 30% federal tax credit and $2K state credit lowers the installed cost:

Original investment: $11,650
Total return: 57,400
RoI: 393%
Simple annual RoI: 9.8%

Banks are paying about 1% right now. Houses incorporating renewable technology will probably be more attractive in the future and retain more value.

Borrowing money to install solar technology is generally cash-flow positive. This depends on future costs of fuel.