[Sixstrings]

Armed men in Crimea threaten UN envoy

The United Nations has confirmed that Senior Advisor Robert Serry is in good shape physically after being threatened today during his visit to Crimea, Ukraine, by armed men who ordered him to leave the region.

“He was met outside the main naval headquarters by a number of unidentified men who were saying that he should leave Crimea and go to the airport,” Deputy Secretary-General Jan Eliasson told reporters in New York, as he briefed via telephone from the Ukrainian capital, Kiev.
http://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/armed-men-crimea-threaten-un-envoy-ban-dispatches-human-rights-official-ukraine

[Plantagenet]

Armed men in Crimea threaten UN envoy

Putin says there are no Russian troops in the Crimea so the Russian men with black bags over their heads wearing Russian uniforms with the Russian insignia pulled off and carrying Russian Army guns are NOT Russians. REPEAT---they are NOT Russians. They just look and sound and act like Russian soldiers. Its just a coincidence, thats all. After all....Would Putin lie to the world?

[dorlomin]

Two violent factions backed by kleptocratic oligarchs. There are no good guys here.

But I am every bit as happy to condemn Russias illegal invasion as I am to condemn the criminally illegal invasion of Iraq by the US.

[Sixstrings]

But I am every bit as happy to condemn Russias illegal invasion as I am to condemn the criminally illegal invasion of Iraq by the US.

At least Americans listened to the rest of the world. Do you think that would ever happen with Russia? Will they listen to the rest of the world now, about Ukraine, and elect a peaceful liberal? No. They can't, they're a dictatorship and their liberals get put in mental asylums or thrown in prison.

Iraq was a long time ago. Ten years? 13? Jesus, we listened to you guys, we repented, can everyone just lay off it now before the world gets steamrolled by "masked gunmen" and a new Empire that doesn't give a damn about human rights or anything soft and cuddly and it's all a macho Iron Boot and if you don't like it they will just shut your gas off and freeze you out. Talk about "cowboys," that's Putin's Russia. We Americans are out to pasture, let's move on, Iraq is over.

I swear, when Russia does this again somewhere else, I really do not want to hear about Iraq anymore. Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.

You've got to understand how traumatic 9/11 was. It's why all these truthers still can't believe it -- it's just CRAZY, it was a Tom Clancy novel (literally). The thing about 9/11 is that everyone *assumed* the attacks would keep coming. Bush wasn't an evil man, he drew up a list of national security threats in the world and said "okay, we're going to get serious now, we can't afford not to anymore." If those attacks had kept up Dor, we would have gone to war with NK too and the whole middle east if necessary. But they did not, and so we stopped at Afghanistan and Iraq.

Maybe this is a flaw with our psyche, that if attacked we will freak out and go to war, I don't know, but it is patently unfair to draw any correlation to Russia's invasion to squash democracy and grab Crimea. For goodness sake. They weren't even attacked. They were not traumatized by Ukraine. There was no groundswell for war in Russia -- Radon posted the poll, only 26% of Russians are for the Crimean invasion.

And if the US does have to do something like fire some missiles at a dictator because he's nerve gassing suburbs with Russian nerve gas -- then I'm just going keep saying "crimea, crimea, crimea" everytime someone says "iraq, iraq, iraq."

At minimum, I hope that going forward Crimea and Georgia are mentioned as much or more than Iraq -- those Russian actions are a lot more recent, and pertinent to the future.

[radon1]

Ukraine crisis: Crimea parliament asks to join Russia

MPs in Crimea have asked Moscow to allow the southern Ukrainian region to become part of the Russian Federation.

Parliament said if its request was granted, Crimean citizens could give their view in a referendum on 16 March.

A government minister in Kiev said it would be unconstitutional for Crimea to join Russia.

Back in 1999 Serbia applied for joining the Russian Federation, but then their request was declined.

[Quinny]

I've checked and the links are still there. I was concerned at the time that escalation seemed to occur when Yanus was folding it definitely seemed out of order. No one seems to want to answer your questions?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26284100
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26374432

These links will most likely be disappeared since they undermine the narrative. A sniper shot at BBC reporters from Hotel Ukraine on February the 20th. This hotel was used as a base by the Right Sector militants. There is video of them moving into it on the same day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... AECjHflyI8

The guy filming them was forced to stop. You can see from the above video (no English version) that the SBU was taking casualties and retreating. Some unarmed peaceful protestors.

But hey, keep on chirping about Putin.

[dissident]

I've checked and the links are still there. I was concerned at the time that escalation seemed to occur when Yanus was folding it definitely seemed out of order. No one seems to want to answer your questions?

If Obama, Merkel or Cameron were facing armed militant "protestors" and riot police shot them dead using snipers there would not be any discussion about the illegitimacy of the US, German or UK governments. It would be covered as law enforcement. You cannot tell if the protestors are armed or not since they could and did have hand guns. There is video of at least one of the Maidan protestors firing a hand gun at law enforcement officers. In the case of Ukraine, Yanukovich was pathologically weak and tried to please NATO by making ridiculous concessions to the militants. The army should have been sent to clear out their encampments even before they had chance to dig in. But we had Berkut without body armour and using rubber bullets for the whole time. Only at the very end was lethal force authorized and the SBU deployed when it was almost pointless.

There is one rule book for NATO members and another rule book for anyone else, especially if they are not conforming to NATO interests. The obscene yapping about the "invasion" of Crimea shows these double standards. If it is OK for NATO to invoke "duty to protect" then Russia can do the same thing. And just because there are no bodies of Crimeans at the hands of Right Sector militants does not prove it was some invasion. Touching how NATO is so worried about ethnic minorities. Except NATO does not care about them when they are not kissing up to it. Like in the case of South Ossetia we will have endless barking about territorial integrity and international "law" (no such thing exists, it is at best some sort of might makes right common law) while in the case of Kosovo we will have the claim of humanitarian catastrophe that makes it a "special case". Recall how the invasion of Kosovo and the construction of the military base "Camp Bondsteel" was never called an invasion in the western media. It was a humanitarian intervention (makeover?). Well, there is an ongoing humanitarian intervention in Crimea as well and using mostly the 26,000 local Russian soldiers.

[dissident]

Ukraine crisis: Crimea parliament asks to join Russia

MPs in Crimea have asked Moscow to allow the southern Ukrainian region to become part of the Russian Federation.

Parliament said if its request was granted, Crimean citizens could give their view in a referendum on 16 March.

A government minister in Kiev said it would be unconstitutional for Crimea to join Russia.

Back in 1999 Serbia applied for joining the Russian Federation, but then their request was declined.

In some sense it would be better just to accept this offer and give NATO the middle finger. But we will have a long process where they will hold a referendum which NATO will not recognize as legitimate (since NATO are bloody hypocrites) and which will leave things in their current ambiguous state. NATO has recognized the illegal regime in Kiev, Russia should automatically recognize any request from the Crimean government. At least the "regime" in Crimea reflects the local majority opinion. All the phoney a baloney shrieking from NATO about territorial integrity and international law is transparent self-serving crap.

[Quinny]

Dissident your strongly worded statements are of course.....




















Correct.

[Keith_McClary]

But I am every bit as happy to condemn Russias illegal invasion as I am to condemn the criminally illegal invasion of Iraq by the US.

At least Americans listened to the rest of the world.

[Sixstrings]

US destroyer en route to Black Sea for 'routine' drills

Washington (AFP) - A US guided-missile destroyer is en route to the Black Sea but naval officials said Thursday it was a "routine" deployment that was planned before the crisis unfolded in Ukraine.

The USS Truxtun departed the Greek port of Souda Bay Thursday to carry out joint training with Romanian and Bulgarian forces, the US Navy said in a statement.

"While in the Black Sea, the ship will conduct a port visit and routine, previously planned exercises with allies and partners in the region," it said.

The mission was "scheduled well in advance of her departure from the United States," it said.

Although portrayed as unrelated to tensions in Ukraine, where pro-Russian forces have taken de facto control over the Crimean peninsula, the presence of a US naval destroyer in the Black Sea sends a symbolic message to Moscow.

The move comes a day after the Pentagon sought to reassure anxious allies in Central and Eastern Europe over Russia's actions in Ukraine, announcing plans to send more F-15 fighter jets to patrol the skies over Baltic states and stepping up aviation training in Poland.

At the moment, the only US naval ship deployed in the Black Sea is the USS Taylor, a frigate undergoing repairs at the Turkish port of Samsun after having run aground last month.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-destroyer-en-route-black-sea-routine-drills-160237512.html;_ylt=AwrTWVXrnxhTIwcAxYLQtDMD

ZH giving the Russian perspective. We're all aware of this from the forum debates here. As far as I know, there has been no evidence at all so far of any ethnic Russians being threatened in Ukraine. Ukrainian government has specifically shown restraint and given orders for its troops to remain in their bases and not confront Russian forces.

If any ethnic Russians get threatened or something happens to them, then I guess we'll be debating if it was sabateurs or not, but anyhow, if anyone has proof of ethnic Russians getting threatened then post it. This isn't about just piling on Russia, if they are right then post the evidence, if something happens to ethnic Russians. We all want to know the truth.

The Russian Perspective: "There Will Be War In Ukraine"

With Ukrainians living in the Crimea region voting to join Russia, the West calling for sanctions (well some of the West), boots still on the ground, and markets apparently of the belief that all is well in the world once again, we thought the Russian perspective on the next steps was useful...

Via Sergei Markov of The Moscow Times,

Will there be war in Ukraine? I am afraid so. After all, the extremists who seized power in Kiev want to see a bloodbath. Only fear for their own lives might stop them from inciting such a conflict. Russia is prepared to move its forces into southern and eastern Ukraine if repressive measures are used against the Russian-speaking population or if a military intervention occurs. Russia will not annex Crimea. It has enough territory already. At the same time, however, it will also not stand by passively while Russophobic and neo-Nazi gangs hold the people of Crimea, Kharkiv and Donetsk at their mercy.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-06/russian-perspective-there-will-be-war-ukraine

[dissident]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5dc_1393 ... 3Rc5uGM.99

A video establishing the fact that protestors were being sniped from the Hotel Ukraine. In total contradiction to all the lies being spread around by the likes of Six$. The BBC videos I posted earlier corroborate this fact. One of the BBC crew even noted the window from which a sniper was operating and that he was kitted out like one of the militants.

To think that the EU wants to sign the association agreement with this regime that installed itself primarily through the incident with the snipers and where Right Sector militants and Svoboda neo-nazis hold key government posts such as security and law enforcement including the general prosecutor post. Why not wait until after the elections?

[dissident]

http://www.channel4.com/news/svoboda-mi ... -far-right

Some inconvenient facts that go against the "Maidan democracy" narrative. The peaceful protestors who numbered over 100,000 late last year had stopped going to the Maidan by February. The ones who staged the take over are not mainstream but militants of the Right Sector and associated paramilitaries. These are the lunatics that NATO is recognizing as the "legitimate" government of Ukraine.

[Sixstrings]

Putin versus the oligarchs:

Bring on the oligarchs! Ukraine drafts in its super-rich tycoons to help curb unrest in Russian-speaking east

But the Kremlin says the moguls will use their positions to further their fortunes. Putin said: ‘No wonder people do not accept this... people have become rich and now they also have been brought to power.’

The move comes after Putin and Kolomoisky exchanged angry words this week. The Russian president called the tycoon a ‘unique swindler’, while Kolomoisky dubbed Putin a ‘pint-sized schizophrenic’ saying his ‘messiah-like’ rebuilding of a Russian empire would ‘lead this world to catastrophe’.

Former US ambassador John Edward Herbst said the oligarchs were showing their commitment to an ‘independent, sovereign and territorially integrated Ukraine’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576100/Bring-oligarchs-Ukraine-drafts-super-rich-tycoons-help-curb-unrest-Russian-speaking-east.html

So what to even say, here? It's not like Putin is in a position to criticize oligarchs, Putin IS an oligarch, too.

I agree the oligarchs thing doesn't sound good, but on the other hand the new government is in a desperate situation with Russia in Crimea.

Nobody has mentioned this but me, I actually read Obama's executive order, and though he or may not use it -- that executive order would allow for going after corruption in Ukraine:

The order also allows the Treasury Department to impose financial sanctions on individuals and entities. Anyone "misappropriating state assets of Ukraine.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/06/obama-issues-executive-order-on-ukraine-sanctions/

The executive order specifically mentions any kind of non-state entitty, including "corporations."

I don't know if O will ever exercise this power, but if a US diplomat got on the horn and told the admin about some oligarch robbing the new gov blind then all the administration would need to do is threaten sanction on that Ukrainian oligarch. So that's something to think about here, maybe the US and IMF and Europeans will be serious about making sure the treasury isn't robbed. (as an American taxpayer I certainly WANT them to be serious about it.)

Obama's executive order specifically allows for sanctions on anyone misappropriating Ukrainian state assets.

Some other headlines:

Warning shots fired to turn monitors back from Crimea

(Reuters) - Warning shots were fired to prevent an unarmed international military observer mission from entering Ukraine's Russian-occupied Crimea, as new confrontations between Russian and Ukrainian troops raised tension ever higher.

A spokeswoman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said no one was hurt when shots were fired to turn back its mission of more than 40 unarmed observers, who have been invited by Kiev but do not have permission from Crimea's pro-Russian separatist regional authorities.

They had been turned back twice before, but this was the first time shots were fired.

Kiev's security council said it had been targeted by hackers in a "massive" denial of service attack designed to cripple its computers. The national news agency was also hit, it said.'
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/08/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140308

Is this just okay? UN envoy forced back on to the plane by gunmen? And now unarmed international OSCE envoys have warning shots fired at them? Has the world gone crazy here, this is really okay with all of you guys? As you post in the America the Awful Horrible Gentle Giant thread?

Also breaking news, Ukrainian patrol plane fired on:

Ukraine border guards patrol plane comes under fire

(Reuters) - A Ukrainian border patrol plane came under fire while flying at about 1,000 metres (3000 feet) near the administrative border with Russian-occupied Crimea on Saturday, the border guards said.

No one was hurt when gunmen opened fire on the unarmed aircraft, a spokesman said. The Diamond light aircraft was flying three crew on an observation mission, the spokesman said.

Russian forces took control of Crimea last week. Pro-Moscow separatists have declared the region part of Russia and plan a referendum for March 16 to confirm it.

Moscow says it has no troops in Crimea beyond those normally stationed there with its Black Sea Fleet, an assertion ridiculed by the West.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/03/08/ukraine-crisis-plane-idINL6N0M50I620140308

[dissident]

Shows the split of Ukraine. BTW, these were not peaceful protestors.

[Sixstrings]

In retaliation against sanctions, Russia considers halting US military inspectons, including nuclear weapons:

Russia Mulls Halting U.S. Inspections Over Sanctions, Russian News Agencies Report

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian news agencies says Moscow is considering a freeze of U.S. military inspections under arms control treaties in retaliation to Washington's decision to halt military cooperation with Russia.

Agencies on Saturday carried a statement by an unidentified Defense Ministry official saying that Moscow sees the U.S. move as a reason to suspend U.S. inspections in Russia in line with the New START nuclear arms reduction treaty and the 2011 Vienna agreement between Russia and NATO on confidence-building measures.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/08/russia-us-inspections_n_4924542.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Poland evacuates its Crimean consulate:

Poland evacuated its consulate in the Crimea region on Saturday.

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski explained on Twitter that the government felt compelled to make the decision because of disturbances by Russian forces, Reuters reports. Sikorski said on Twitter: "Because of continuing disturbances by Russian forces there, we have reluctantly evacuated our consulate in Crimea, Ukraine."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/08/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-consulate-idUSBREA270E920140308

[Sixstrings]

Here's a compromise for detente on the forum. I started this thread in the first place -- I'll make this one my ethnic American ghetto and allow our Russian posters to have the other threads to themselves. And I'll stop ranting and keep it to unfolding developments and I won't inflame anybody.

The reality of all of this, is that we don't even need sanctions. If Putin causes instability then market forces will always correct:

Pressure on Putin As Russian Wealth Disappears

Wall Street punished Russia for creating instability, sending stocks in Russian companies down nearly 13 percent Monday, or the equivalent of 2,612 Dow points. Shares in Gazprom, the state-owned energy giant that enriched many of Moscow’s ruling class, tracked with the broader market, falling 13 percent. The ruble also got hammered on currency markets, forcing the Russian Central Bank to raise interest rates by 1.5 percent.

This drop is part of a broader trend. According to market data firm MSCI, the Russian market is down 59 percent, in U.S. dollar terms, from highs reached in 2008. It’s a staggering loss of wealth, and Putin’s decision to invade Ukraine made it worse.

Goldberg said Putin’s decision to invade shows that he doesn’t understand globalization and Russia’s role in, and dependence on, the world economy.

“Russia is the country that denied globalization under Putin, but it is now trapped by it,” he said. “Forty percent of your budget is tied to selling to Europe, you’re tied to only having one customer. They’re as economically trapped as the Europeans.”

Goldberg added that Russia’s explanation for its actions -- protecting Russians outside its borders -- is also hard to justify in the long-term.

“There are so many things on this chess board that it’s amazing to me all the pieces being played,” he said. “You have Russia’s piece, and I think Putin overstepped. Their justification gave them the right to invade Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, where there are 300,000 Russian speakers.”
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/03/06/Pressure-Putin-Russian-Wealth-Disappears

Some good points in that article. That Putin doesn't understand globalization and how vulnerable Russia is to economic instability, and I've said it many times already how Gazprom needs European customers as much as they need the gas (if not more, Russia cannot cut the taps and just let Gazprom stock tank and no revenue coming in, it just can't happen).

So this will all work out. If Russia causes fear in the markets then that hurts Russia, a lot. Globalization and world peace for the win.

[dorlomin]

Dissident your strongly worded statements are of course.....




















Correct.

Quisling quimmy.

[dissident]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1hh8#t=284

Large protest in Donetsk on March 7th, 2014. Based on the size of the Maidan crowd of 100,000 this protest is about 40,000. I used Google earth to measure the park they are filling up, it is the same size as Maidan Nezalezhnosti. This is just Donetsk, other eastern cities are seeing large demonstrations as well.

The crowd is chanting "fascism will not succeed" (lit. get through). For chauvinists who cherry pick facts, like dorlomin, these people must all be nazis.

[Sixstrings]

Accusations of Western security contractors in Ukraine:

As the armed men left the scene, suspicious bystanders could be heard yelling 'Blackwater! Blackwater!'



Has Blackwater been deployed to Ukraine? Notorious U.S. mercenaries 'seen on the streets of flashpoint city' as Russia claims 300 hired guns have arrived in country

Unidentified armed men seen on the streets of Donetsk in east Ukraine
Russian diplomat claims 300 mercenaries had arrived in Kiev this week
Mercenaries in the region could give Putin pretext for military action
Donetsk has been the scene of big pro-Russian demonstrations this week

Speculation was growing last night that American mercenaries had been deployed to Donetsk after videos emerged of unidentified armed men in the streets of the eastern Ukrainian city.

At least two videos published on YouTube earlier this week show burly, heavily armed soldiers with no insignia in the city, which has been gripped by pro-Moscow protests.

In one of the videos onlookers can be heard shouting 'Blackwater! Blackwater!' as the armed men, who wear no insignia, jog through the streets.

Donetsk was this week the scene of civil unrest as pro-Russian elements among its citizens seized control of the regional administration headquarters and another government building.

Yesterday thousands of people gathered in the city centre waving Russian flags and calling for a referendum to determine the status of the strategically important coal-mining region.

Both the videos which purport to show 'Blackwater' mercenaries in Donetsk were uploaded last Monday, with their descriptions written in Russian.

The context of the videos is not clear, but it appears that the armed men had turned up at a street protest against the new regime. They wander around brandishing their weapons before suddenly fleeing the scene as passers-by shout 'Blackwater! Blackwater!'

Since the videos emerged, Twitter has been alive with speculation that mercenaries linked to Blackwater, now known as Academi, are active in Ukraine, helping to prop up the embattled new pro-western government.

And a Russian diplomat in Kiev told the Interfax news agency on Wednesday that 300 employees of private security companies had arrived there.

'These are soldiers of fortune proficient in combat operations. Most of them had operated under private contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan and other states,' the source said. Interfax reported that the diplomat did not disclose the nationalities of the mercenaries but said, 'Most of them come from the United States'.

Asked whether the soldiers seen in the videos could be from Academi, Dr Nafeez Ahmed, a security expert with the Institute for Policy Research & Development, said: ‘Difficult to say really. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility - Academi have been deployed in all sorts of theatres.

'I think the question is whether the evidence available warrants at least reasonable speculation.

‘On the face of it, the uniforms of the people in the videos are consistent with US mercs - they don't look like Russian soldiers mercs. On the other hand, why run around in public making a show of it?’

He added: ‘Of course the other possibility is it's all Russian propaganda.’

Any suggestion that a U.S. mercenary outfit like Academi had begun operating in the country could give Russian president Vladimir Putin the pretext for a military invasion.

The Russian parliament, the Duma, has already voted to give Putin the authority to take action in the country, where the pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych was last month ousted after mass protests in the capital, Kiev.

Pro-Russian forces have already seized control of the southern Ukrainian province of Crimea, although the Kremlin denies that the thousands of heavily armed, well-equipped men that have appeared there are under its control.

Last month a report in the Daily Beast claimed that 'informed sources' in Moscow had said the troops belong to Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana, a private security contracting bureau similar to Academi that is close to the Kremlin.

The videos which emerged this week come amid reports in Russian media which claimed that 300 'strong' men had arrived at Kiev's Boryspil airport carrying military-style bags.

Reports speculated that they were being sent to regions in eastern and southern Ukraine where Russian-speaking and ethnic Russian groups posed a secessionary threat to the new government.

...

Technically they are a multinational company and can by hired by anyone, but the board of directors includes a number of U.S. establishment figures including John Ashcroft, the former Attorney General, and former NSA chief Bobby Ray Inman.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576490/Are-Blackwater-active-Ukraine-Videos-spark-talk-U-S-mercenary-outfit-deployed-Donetsk.html

I would tend to doubt these are actually American contractors. This comment on the article sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about:

there are over 200 legal "Private Security" aka merc companies according to the UN including over 40 based in Russia. It probably is not a US based group as they are subject to many US regulations. Going into a situation like this could cost any american firm any govt contracts and possibly their operating licence

But I'm not sure. All I know is there are multinational guns for hire out there and anyone can hire them. Russia has them too. My hunch is that these aren't Americans, and that any US based merc group would be subject to some regulation and not be showing up in such a tinderbox situation as this. I could be wrong, if anyone knows more / for sure then feel free to post.

This whole thing is definitely a powderkeg. Russian media could pick this story up and repeat it and people would get really inflamed about it. Meanwhile the real truth is likely they aren't even American. I'll keep an eye out for any confirmation / more info on this.