[vtsnowedin]

The majority of the people now alive on the planet have never lived in a world of cheap available energy. They are already living in the post peak oil world and are used to it. We on the other hand are spoiled rotten and live in mortal fear of being reduced to the subsistence level of a rice paddy serf. Quite a large majority of the affluent world will die not for a lack of energy but from a total lack of survival skills. No matter, the untouchables will move on after disposing of our carcases and survive quite nicely without us or cheap oil.

[Cid_Yama]

The majority of the people now alive on the planet have never lived in a world of cheap available energy. They are already living in the post peak oil world and are used to it. We on the other hand are spoiled rotten and live in mortal fear of being reduced to the subsistence level of a rice paddy serf. Quite a large majority of the affluent world will die not for a lack of energy but from a total lack of survival skills. No matter, the untouchables will move on after disposing of our carcases and survive quite nicely without us or cheap oil.

Aside from the fact that probably NOBODY will survive the next 50 years, I am totally awe struck that YOU said that.

Now if we can just get you to grasp the threat of methane armageddon.

In your lifetime those rice paddy serfs and lower castes will be banging at the border with AK-47's demanding the means to survive.

[Ludi]

The majority of the people now alive on the planet have never lived in a world of cheap available energy.

Yes they did, cheap energy is one of the factors there are so many people now alive on the planet.

See "Green Revolution."

[vtsnowedin]

The majority of the people now alive on the planet have never lived in a world of cheap available energy.

Yes they did, cheap energy is one of the factors there are so many people now alive on the planet.

See "Green Revolution."

I see your point and you are quite correct but they didn't grow up playing video games while strapped into booster seats in Moms Yukon land yacht.

[mos6507]

I see your point and you are quite correct but they didn't grow up playing video games while strapped into booster seats in Moms Yukon land yacht.

Whether born with a silver spoon or not, a human body is a human body with generally fixed minimum requirements for survival. So just because the 3rd worlders can live on less and the rich aren't happy to powerdown doesn't change the fact that some of us are going to have to go in the end, once we've reached diminshing returns on the powerdown piece (assuming everyone DOES powerdown, which they won't, conscience be-damned).

[frankthetank]

Highlander-

Your right... god damn zeroes! I've been playing around with the calculator too much lately...

[frankthetank]

The only way we can do it is use the remaining fossil fuels too build the required infrastructure (in my book, electric trains, trolleys, subways) and a couple hundred nuclear reactors and hope to God the oil lasts long enough to finish everything...The "greenies" won't let us cap Yellowstone with the world largest geothermal plant I say skip the wind turbines, screw the solar panels (keep solar hot water), and lets nuke it. A campaign of terror? to reduce electrical use ---If you use electricity, the terrorists win?-- and will also need to address heating needs, with woodstoves becoming the norm. Biofuels will have to be used for shipping and agriculture... thats it... Personal transportation will be melted down (My Focus will be made into shovels...) with the remaining coal

[dsula]

Ludi, I'm not planning on anything 'sustainable'. I'd just like to survive long enough to see how things unfold. I don't think it will be pleasant. Morbid curiousity, perhaps! The ones that survive should have plenty of space to wander and 'hunter-gather' (assuming that something is left to hunt or gather) in the near future. I might even get the opportunity to try my hand at it if we do the fast-crash thing. Fortunately, the backyard of my primary residence is several thousand acres of forest and park-land with a river on its northern border.

Haha. That is exactly my plan. I don't think I will make it through "the crunch" especially because "the crunch" will last a couple of decades. However I hope to witness as much as possible.

[Ludi]

lets nuke it.

Good luck with that.


"San Antonio's mayor is threatening to force the city-run utility to pull out of the expansion of the South Texas Project nuclear power plant if cost estimates for the project don't come down.

CPS Energy, is partnering with New Jersey-based NRG Energy to build two more reactors for about $13 billion, according to estimates from earlier this year. But the main contractor, Toshiba, recently revealed there could be as much as $4 billion more added to the price tag."

http://blogs.chron.com/newswatchenergy/ ... o_may.html

"Despite being under fire by those who say CPS Energy withheld an estimated $4 billion cost increase, its board of trustees in open session did not discuss a specific figure for the expansion of the South Texas Nuclear Project in Matagorda County.
"We’re astounded that they're the ones negotiating for us," said former City Councilwoman Maria Berriozabal, a member of Energia Mia Coalition, a group that opposes the project.
CPS Energy top management Monday briefed the trustees on last week's trip to Japan where they met with Toshiba and the project's other contractors.
"Specifically, we explained that our customers come first," said interim General Manager Steve Bartley.
Otherwise, a higher cost would exceed the current threshold of a 5 percent rate increase every other year.
Bartley told the trustees that the contractors "understood the urgency of our need" and they will revise the estimate that was labeled confidential last month.
"I still want to see the letter. I have not seen it. I've heard about it," trustee Stephen Henning said about the now reported $17 million [sic] expansion."

http://www.ksat.com/news/21634838/detail.html

[frankthetank]

From a Wisconsin perspective, this state really has no other choice then moving towards nukes...or we import electricity from Canada or the Dakotas.. The wind potential really isn't that great, solar is a joke this far north, and hydro is already developed... What happens when Wyoming/MT coal becomes to expensive, starts to run out? It WILL happen some day... why not prepare now? I guess a middle of the road approach would be to build a few 100 turbines around the state, supplementing nuclear...then again, N Dak has way better potential so why not build them there and buy from them...no good choices.

I saw a Canadian Pacific train while i was out biking this afternoon full of coal. Mostly likely Wyoming coal heading east. Some day that train will run empty...