[Plantagenet]

Thank you for your very interesting post pana_burda.

I agree with you that the inflation rate under Chavez is shocking, especially considering the huge amounts of money that the state-controlled Venezuelan oil industry is generating for Chavez.

Please continue to post with your viewpoint on what is happing in Venezuela, if it is safe for you to do so. It is very interesting to hear the perspective of someone living in Venezuela.

[Blammo]

If not for Chavez the currency would have been 67,000:1 and not 5,000:1

It would be very interesting to know how you reached out to that rather curious conclussion. Me, not being an economist, think in "inflation" as a non linear economic distortion. I infere, from your reasoning, you have considered it as such.

Nevertheless, for the poor people, that is, +75% of the entire population, of a country, as filthy rich as this country is, being subject to either economic burdens and pressures, I don´t quite agree we should "celebrate" the "success" you suggest of this other "administrator" and that of his wrongful policies.

First and foremost one must relize that the impoverishment of Vz was not FROM Chaves.
It was from the fatcats electing scumbags to cover the fatcats crimes.
Chaves will successfully lessen the gap between rich and poor, given time.

Now.
Question.
The Venezuelan posting here had an excellent command of the English language.
Are you a gringo in Vz or native ?
If native let me have a guess.
Your parents are fatcats and sent you to the states ?
You are on a computer. Your not teribly poor.
Fess up....

[pana_burda]

WOW.....!!!! yes ...... I am in a computer ....., how did you know???

And so are you, I suppose, huh?

DOBLE WOW!!! !!! ...... all that "experience" in posting, to agree with ....... "THAT"

Serious here folks, why instead of ...... displaying off such "talents", you just show me what you have got collected GOOD from THIS country (under the endless term of king hugo the first ) and perhaps we could start having some fun and LEARNING while discussing the validity (or not) of THOSE arguments.

Please listen, I am very aware poverty was NOT created by your ...... mmmm, "hero", ok, but my complaint lies in the CONTINUITY of its causes.

Oil, and its prices, have been very high almost since day one of hugo´s term yet the solutions to be taken, to solve out said problems, seem to be running in a different race.

Eight years ..... or better said, almost NINE years, is a heck of a lot of time, to have begun to see some positive results in the "micro" economy yet they are farther away and deepened under the Atila´s kind of politics, developed by fidel castro and carried away/through by hugo, within this very country and throughout many parts of the central and south-american subcontinent.

After all, I always thought, (intelligent) FORUMS, were meant for that, don´t you think?

By the way, I was born in the states, FYI.

[MrBean]

It is my impression that even the most lunatic opposition oligarchs are - though slowly and stubbornly - starting to recognize that the missiones are actually working as intended and people generally like them very much, as well as the fundamental democratic right to be able to vote over the Constitution in a referendum, and not just the most fairest ones - something neither US nor my so called democratic states grant their "sovereign" people.

But then, if one is born in the USA and shares the traditional rich man's view that identifies real democracy with "mob rule", well that could easily put a person outside the outmost extreme lunatic fringe of the opposition.

[pana_burda]

mmmm ....... ¿links?

[pana_burda]

HEY ....... but you SEEMED to have such a BIG mouth ...... ¿WHAT? ¿empty handed?

[Rafa]

Eight years ..... or better said, almost NINE years, is a heck of a lot of time, to have begun to see some positive results in the "micro" economy

If you close your eyes of course you won't see anything.

However, anyone with eyes can see.
Just take a ticket to Venezuela, and go see by yourself, go talk with the people, ask them what they think about their country the political and economical situation, ask them how it was before and how it is now.

"pana burda" is the typical representant of that minority of venezuelians that refuse to see reality, that refuse to admit that they are a minority, and that blindly accept any fantasy the opposition media feed them (one of the most absurd fantasies is continuing to pretend that a coup d'Etat that made varios dozens of killed, where the constitution, the parlament, the supreme court, the the supreme electoral council, etc were disolved, where all guarantees were suspended (included guarantee of life); they pretend it was not a coup, that nothing bad happened that day, that the legal and legitim president just "resigned" like that, without a reason (yet they fail to present any proof of that "resignation"), that Carmona Estanga just appeared at the presidential palace by chance, that he just nominate himself president because there was a "power vacuum" (you know, that happens all the time, people just pass by at presidential palaces, found out that the president has been taken out by force by gunmen that claim he "resigned", and, you known, as you are passing by and see that empty presidential palace you intronize yourself, and to make the ceremony more vivid, you make a speech to insult the legal president, to suspend all guarantees and the constitution, and you sign arrest warrants for the elected members of the parlament; yes that happens all the time and it's not a coup, not at all... well that is what the venezuelian opposition still thinks)

As for the economical situation in Venezuela, all indicators, macro and micro economics, show a HUGE improvement since Chavez took the presidency; and that despite the big blows to the economy done by the coup d'Etat and by the patronal oil strike.
People are healthier, better feed, they have higher leves of education; and better communications too (since CANTV has been made a public company), to answer to someone upper that thinks that having an internet acces from Venezuela is a sign of being a fatcat; that was some years before, yes; but nowadays internet is doing massive inroads in low income sectors, either at home with low fee connections, or trough public computer centers wired to the internet.
You can also look at the car market, often a meter of the local economy; in Venezuela it has litterlay exploded.
Or the various buildings being done here and there (so much that there is a severe shortage of concrete); the minimum wage has been increased several times, being now one of the most (if not the most) high in Latin America.
You can also look at the big economical immigration from Colombia to Venezuela (but Venezuela don't plan to build a big wall all around the border; rather Venezuela thinks that the solution would be to have peace and economical justice in Colombia, so colombians don't have to flee).
You can also look at the movies production; almost inexistent some years ago, it has bloosomed now, with several big productions per year.

But don't believe me nor believe "pana burda"; just go and see by yourselves.

[Rafa]

It is my impression that even the most lunatic opposition oligarchs are - though slowly and stubbornly - starting to recognize that the missiones are actually working

At least they recognize that a majority of venezuelians won't accept losing them; that is why in 13 points plan/strategy to get rid of Chavez one of the points says that it is imperative "to convince the people that the benefits of the missions will be kept" (note it doesn't says that it is needed to kept the missions, but to convince the gullible that they will be kept ).

Yes, the missions have made a very big difference in the live of millions of venezuelians; someone telling them that they will lose all that and become back as miserable as previously will have absolutely no chance to get elected.
And that is why Chavez wins election after election; he has a political project that benefits the majority, and as the results of that project start to show their fruits, the support for Chavez grows. The first election he won with a bit more than 50%; the latest (last 3 of december 2006) he won with 63%.

Just plain mathematics.

[pana_burda]

Ups ..... sorry!

they pretend it was not a coup, that nothing bad happened that day, that the legal and legitim president just "resigned" like that, without a reason (yet they fail to present any proof of that "resignation"),

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7FZxqTjrtw

People are healthier, better feed, they have higher leves of education; and better communications too (since CANTV has been made a public company), to answer to someone upper that thinks that having an internet acces from Venezuela is a sign of being a fatcat; that was some years before, yes; but nowadays internet is doing massive inroads in low income sectors, either at home with low fee connections, or trough public computer centers wired to the internet.

With the assistance of a collapsed down public health system???? ..... ,

With shortages of everything including that of the money to buy ´em up, of work to get the money to and IF you do have the preceeding factors, then, you lack of the BASIC goodie´s prescence in the supermarkets????

...... and with the institution of a useless, highly indoctrinating yet hardly functional public educational system, on one side and a "private" system, struggling its way across the government to remain operational and/or in bussiness on the other side????

Concrete shortage: a juncture for the construction of the downed Caracas-La Guaira bridge plus the infraestructure needed to be built up for the regional soccer championship cup as an added momentary, not planned demmand to "normal" needs.

Vehicles shortages: the defense mechanism for the working class people to protect themselves against the upcoming 50% inflation rate PLUS the extra demmand created by the most powerful of the costumers: Govmnt itself.

Any johndow, earning hardly 100 bucks a month could hardly buy one of such SEVERAL THOUSANDS DOLLARS expensive mobile stuff.

http://venezuelafx.blogspot.com/

That page explains the real relationship between our currency and the US Dollar.

Currently that exchange is above the Bs.6000/each damned buckaroo. When hugo stepped in, almost 10 years ago, that mark was "only" Bs.500.

Those are the answers anybody INTERESTED will find out when coming right down here!.

[Rafa]

Ups ..... sorry!

they pretend it was not a coup, that nothing bad happened that day, that the legal and legitim president just "resigned" like that, without a reason (yet they fail to present any proof of that "resignation"),

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7FZxqTjrtw

And they continue to fail to present any proof of that supposed "resignation".

A valid resignation can only be done by the president himself, with his signature, and if done under coertion whould be invalid anyway.
Nothing of that happenned; someone else claiming he resigned is not the same as he resigning.
It is a so elemental concept that you can only resign yourself, even a young children can understand that; how is it that you, venezuelian opposition, are so unable to grasp even those simple concepts?

With shortages of everything

Not of "everything", if you actually lie in Venezuela you should know that the "shortages" only occur for a product at a time, and only for price regulated ones, but "strangely" derivated products are available (at much higher prices); for example, milk at regulated prices is hard to find, but you can easily find cheese, yaghourt, cream,... so, there is milk or not?
And if milk is so scarce, why are some private producters dumping big amounts of milk into the Maracaibo lake?
And what about those huge stocks of milk that Nestle was hiding and that were discovered by the police?

The shortages are a political strategy of the venezuelian opposition, they are not natural but forced, the stocks are hidden to create an artificial shortage, that is psychological warfare.
And it is being less and less efective; what the producers participating in those politicially motivated shortages will gain, are big loses in money, and the risk to lose markets (because the State is investing a lot, to contremesure those induced shortages; and once the Mercal network of distribution is able to satisfy a given need, the previous resellers would have lost a big market, because a very very big bunch of the venezuelian society won't buy at them anymore, as they can get it at much lesser price at the nearest Mercal).

including that of the money

Shortage of money?
mwahahahahaha.

Definitively, you don't live in Venezuela

Concrete shortage: a juncture for the construction of the downed Caracas-La Guaira bridge plus the infraestructure needed to be built up for the regional soccer championship cup as an added momentary, not planned demmand to "normal" needs.

Plus lots and lots of habitations, plus lots of hospitals, plus lots of schools, plus lots of turism infrastructure (hotels, etc), plus the 2nd bridge over the Orinoco, plus the metro stations, plus the railroad infrastructure, plus various new factories,...
Venezuela has a big boom in the building sector, and indeed national production of concrete isn't enough and a lot is imported.

Funny that you try to present such a big economical activity in a bad side.

Vehicles shortages:

there never was so much vehicles being sold in Venezuela,
that is the reason why there are long waiting lists, and that
despite the fact that now there are also nationally made vehicles
(with iranian technology).
That is a clear indicator of the increase of the level of income of
the venezuelians.

Any johndow, earning hardly 100 bucks a month could hardly buy one of such SEVERAL THOUSANDS DOLLARS expensive mobile stuff.

100 bucks?
For your information, the MINIMUM wage is equivalent to near 400 US dollars, you cannot hae a job and earn less than that, it is illegal.
And there is also the credits to buy a car that are granted to families with low incomes, at very interesting conditions.

That page explains the real relationship between our currency and the US Dollar.

Currently that exchange is above the Bs.6000/each damned

That is the exchange for illegal money; of course, if you are a drug dealer you don't want to fill legal papers to get a legal change, so you will get the money on the illegal market; and of course it is much more expensive.
But if you are a law abiding citizen, if your money has been lawfully earned, then you can change it a the legal exchange rate, which is of about 2150Bs/dollar.
Only people with illegally earned money, or people very stupid, will pay three times more the dollar.

Those are the answers anybody INTERESTED will find out when coming right down here!.

Anyone that comes to Venezuela is because they are interested to know about the country, you don't arrive by accident
Of course, there could be some few stubborns and biased like yourself, that will believe the same fallacies as yourself, or that will tell you they believe them to make you happy
But the immense majority of the people coming to Venezuela, if they are honnest, will see a very different reality than what you tell.

They will, for exemple, switch on the TV at their hotels, and will be apalled by the extreme aggressivity and hatred, and plain lying, of the opposition TVs; that is something that marks the foreigners visiting Venezuela, from the simple men to the head of State, because in their respective countries such a thing wouldn't be tolerated; the only country in the world where the press and TV has so much freedom to say anything, even lies and diffamation agains the president, is Venezuela. And Venezuela now; because before Chavez, it was rutine to close down papers or TVs.

[pana_burda]

Just illustrate yourself pal

[pana_burda]

....... and a RE-RUN of the imperialistic way to take over other people´s resources and tint in bloody red their soils.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSvJ-ULdhcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f-XRZylEkQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr_nfa0L_ho

By the way, how convenient amnesia they showed up, when they forgot to mention who the economical AND political sponsor of this new monster was, in spite of the "yelling and cursing" show presented to the international audience.

[americandream]

What the heck are you on about, slave?

[anarky321]

if your going to post stuff like this can you be more detailed, more clear and less biased in the description, your description screams of personal sentiment and bias, and i dont see how this is a look into the future of venezuela, more like a "pro-american summary of how chavez came to power and what he has done up to this point"

[pana_burda]

Well .......... sorry if I seem "biased" or personally "affected" by the messages but those videos speak quite clearly what the venezuelan future will look like in a shortwhile and the kind of panorama is expecting for us ALL (you included).

When you start watching videos such as those, it is because the mediatic campaign against that "unconfortable leader" has started out and that sets up the beginning of a new approach to "solve" out THAT problem. However, it usually indicates other than "diplomatic" means to carry it out.

Irak and those "WMD" is a perfect example as well as this recent campaign up against Iran and their new "nuclear status".

Just for the records, this is NOT only a personal view but, as you said, its more than a personal sentiment. It is a NATIONAL sentiment, where way over 75-85% of Venezuelans do agree in the ENTIRE content and message transmitted throughout those videos.

Even, some of us (venezuelans) may be internally WISHING them (their ARMED FORCES) to be the problem solvers of our political situation since, our "democratic" struggle and response capability, as well as the remaining of our democratic INSTITUTIONS, have been simply and SYSTEMATICALLY exhausted off by this local character, posing as our "president".

Not me included in that last list since, I am FULLY aware of the game the american SYSTEM is playing with this other south american country and its main resource: "oil"

The last of the videos says why MOST of us would NOT consider hugo chavez to be our legitimate president and since then, SIX long years have passed by and the guy is, internationally, very much stronger, thanks to the careless uncontrolled "management" of our petrodollars but nationally, is at its lowest possible level instead, thanks to the precaotic situation lived by most citizens of this country.

[pana_burda]

¿WMD´s?

............ you´ve got it!

[gampy]

Dude...learn the judicious use (or not use of) quotation marks.

I hate grammar "nazi's" like everyone "else", but it really does not help your "cause" to annoy your prospective "readers".

Just some "friendly" advice.

[julianj]

Just for the records, this is NOT only a personal view but, as you said, its more than a personal sentiment. It is a NATIONAL sentiment, where way over 75-85% of Venezuelans do agree in the ENTIRE content and message transmitted throughout those videos.

Please provide a link to substantiate those contentious figures.

Hugo Chavez has been repeatedly elected over the past few years. He isn't a dictator.

One of the most insidious forms of US, European and ruling class efforts to undermine autonomous mass movements is the funding, training and proliferation of the misleadingly self-labeled ‘Non-Governmental Organizations’ (NGO). The liberal academic critics (LAC) of the democratically elected Chavez government echo and mimic the rhetoric of the NGO’s – accusing Venezuela of lacking popular participation and discouraging ‘open and democratic debate.’......

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/a ... 5779.shtml

[pana_burda]

Sure do:

http://www.soberania.org/Articulos/articulo_1772.htm

Those figures were from the "parlamentary elections" held some three years ago. Some even calculated it in 90 percent abstention yet I am quite conservative, as you can see.

Look julianj, those ciphers were also provided surely in other post of mine, since I always like to talk with evidences in my hands. Not only my personal perspectives on venezuelan matters are enough. I also claim the same balanced attitude back. Perhaps those dubious questions feel a bit out of order.

I am also providing the official link of the electoral department of this regime and how they manage the info over there.