[bart]

I believe they [the Amish] do use selective technology.

That's my understanding too, Ron. And the judgment about what is permissible varies from time to time and group to group (they aren't centralized). I think the criteria they use is whether the technology helps or hinders their community and way of life. Strange thought, to exercise selectivity over technologies!

The amish do what they do at least partly because they want nothing to do with the rest of us. "unequally yoked" and all that. So it will be kind of ironic if and when ppl start showing up on their doorsteps asking to buy draft animals, en masse.

Throughout most of their history, the Amish have been persecuted and pressured to accept worldly ways... that might explain their lack of enthusiasm for outsiders. When people approach with an attitude of respect, they seem to be open enough. So maybe they won't be too unhappy when people want to buy draft animals. They aren't averse to turning a profit!

Looking on the web, I see it has already happened! ( The Amish: From Plows to Profits). One interesting Amish business is Lehman's:

Founded by Jay Lehman in 1955 to serve the local Amish and others without electricity, Lehman's ships old-fashioned, high-quality merchandise all over the world.

Jay's vision was to preserve the past for future generations. "I was concerned that some day the Amish would not be able to maintain their simple ways of life because these products would no longer be available," he said. His goal was, and still is, to provide authentic, historical products to those seeking a simpler life.
....
Because of our attention to historical authenticity, not only do historical museums and re-enactments groups purchase our products, but Hollywood has caught on. Virtually every big name Hollywood production set in a 19th century time period buys their products from Lehman's. Cold Mountain with Nichole Kidman; Open Range with Kevin Costner; Pirates of the Caribbean with Johnny Depp, they all featured Lehman's products.

Our Story Part 1 / Our Story Part 2

Frankly speaking, I don't think the Amish will last too long unless they accept 'Modern'weapons and the way of life which is necessary to maintain the new toys.

Actually, the Amish and related groups (Mennonites and Hutterites) have been through this all before back in Europe, where they underwent horrendous persecution. Through it all, they remained pacifists. They've survived for several hundred years, so I expect that another outbreak of insanity among "the English" (as they call us) won't stop them.

>Most people think of their celibacy as an awful burden. But from what I've read, the Shaker settlements seemed to have been very happy places

But where are they now? ....A celibate-only population won't last too long.

The reason the numbers of Shakers fell is that their growth had come from as orphans, the unemployed, and people without families. As economic and social conditions improved, there was less motivation to join. Religious conversions also dropped as religious fashions changed.

Interviews of the Shakers are surprising for the acceptance and lack of bitterness they showed as their numbers dwindled. Quite a contrast to our excitement and hysteria.

pkofsocal, if the future is as bad as you think it will be, there may be a resurgence of monasticism and Shaker-like groups. In Europe and Asias, monastic orders have been going for over 1000 years; they provide a refuge in times of trouble, and a sanctuary for learning to continue.

[pkofsocal]

>The reason the numbers of Shakers fell is that their growth had come from as orphans, the unemployed, and people without families. As economic and social conditions improved, there was less motivation to join. Religious conversions also dropped as religious fashions changed.

In one word, "Television".

>Interviews of the Shakers are surprising for the acceptance and lack of bitterness they showed as their numbers dwindled. Quite a contrast to our excitement and hysteria.

What they would do? It was the only life they knew. They are kind of too late for going to dates.

>pkofsocal, if the future is as bad as you think it will be, there may be a resurgence of monasticism and Shaker-like groups. In Europe and Asias, monastic orders have been going for over 1000 years; they provide a refuge in times of trouble, and a sanctuary for learning to continue.

To maintain monastic orders you need a constant inflow of people. Sure, there will always be a few people who are religious enough to put themselves out of the gene pool. But I doubt their numbers would be numerous enough to maintain the Order.

Many poor boys became monks during these times because it was the only way for them to receive education.

But if civilization retreats, education will be less necessary also.

[RonBonnell]

They themselves are pacifists, but do they pay for defense? They do now through taxes. I know they are not allowed to own a car but they can pay for a ride in a car.

Perhaps in the future they would pay for protection with food or knowledge. Maybe the "protection" would be more like the kind offerred by the "Mob" to a New York store owner. Perhaps that is how they survived in the past. If they were a source of food, someone who controlled the area would want them protected. If there are just mobs that reach them they may not have a hope, but if someone takes control, even as in "The Postman", they could be protected, and their knowledge preserved. This would, I suppose, be something like a feudal system.

Absent a collapse, the current government offers protection but demands the food or its equivalent through taxes.