[grabby]

Grabbies peak oil solution: To solve the peak oil crisis, all that needs to be done is to find a more plentiful and more concentrated form of energy to replace oil.

Grabbies Law: The actions necessary to mitigate the effects of peak oil, must be implemented before the effects are noticed.

Grabbies law of political application: Any action taken will be to disseminate, divert or minimize the effects of the problem, not the problem itself.

Grabbies Law of Politics: No action is ever taken on problematic effects until there is a crises, or unless there is money to be made.

Grabbies law of degrees: To prevent a peak oil economic collapse, sufficient replacement of fuel to continue the exponential growth of hydrocarbon fuels is required, either more concentrated fuels or more quantity of fuels.

From the laws above, it is clear that:
1. Peak oil will not be solved
2. People will pass lucrative laws on the subject.
3. When the crisis hits it will be too late to solve the problem.

Since there is no more plentiful and no more concentrated form of chemical energy than oil, then:

Every idea proposed should be asked this question:
WHO is making money off of this idea?
WHY do they really want to do this?
HOW am I going to end up paying for this out of my taxes?
WHEN will I notice the decrease in my paycheck.
WHAT strings did they pull to get this legislation through?


Then you will be an informed consumer... er.
Producer.

[grabby]

P.S. Peak oil will never kill anyone.

People losing their temper will do that.

[venky]

Lets look at the laws one by one.

1. We dont have to replace oil entirely on two counts. First we can do by with less i.e. conservation and restructing our current way of life ex urban sprawl and suburbia. Second while there is no energy source out there that we know of today that can replace oil entirely, with a combination of sources it could be different

2. True, if you want to totally prevent any problem or discontinuity that might arise due to oil depletion. Like Robert Hirsch estimates that by begining 20 years before hand we can 'totally' in his opinion, mitigate Peak Oil. But does not mean the problem cannot be solved after Peak Oil hits, albeit at a heavy price, economic recessions or worse.

3. In the begining yes, as the public and policy makers struggle to come to grips with the problem. But with an informed public and competant government perhaps we can tackle the root causes of the problem.

4. True

5. Unproven. Economies have undergone severe contractions, turmoil, recessions and wars in the past where all growth, leave aside exponentional stopped. These economies did not collapse and recovered after the problems ended.

Regarding your conclusions.
1. Unproven
2. Possible
3. Unproven

[MonteQuest]

1. We dont have to replace oil entirely on two counts.

People trot this out like it is suppose to mean something.

Peak oil is about the end of cheap, readily available energy.

Conservation is a self-induced recession.

Even a combination of alternative energies won't be cheaper, and they must be.

But does not mean the problem cannot be solved after Peak Oil hits, albeit at a heavy price, economic recessions or worse

Peak oil isn't a problem to be solved, it is a milestone in an unsustainaiible world paradigm.

In the begining yes, as the public and policy makers struggle to come to grips with the problem. But with an informed public and competant government perhaps we can tackle the root causes of the problem.

The root cause is our entire way of life and the way we look at the world; with a monetary system based upon exponential infinite growth in a finite world.

There is no "techno-fix" for foolishness and blind ignorance.

And of course, you do not mention population reduction...which must be addressed for any solution to be viable.

Otherwise, it is a short-sighted selfish solution....which is what got us here in the first place.

These economies did not collapse and recovered after the problems ended.

Sorry, the problem of peak oil will not end, nor it's consequences.

We will not recover life as we know it today.

[seldom_seen]

Peak oil isn't a problem to be solved, it is a milestone in an unsustainable world paradigm.

There you have it. Well said.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

MonteQuest wrote:
Peak oil isn't a problem to be solved, it is a milestone in an unsustainable world paradigm.


Yes, and this is the sole reason we have so many arguements on here. Many just will not accept this no matter what.

[Doly]

Peak oil isn't a problem to be solved, it is a milestone in an unsustainaible world paradigm.

Pretty sentence, but what does it mean? That there's no point in doing anything about peak oil?

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

I think it's clear from his post that he is calling for a new world view.

[MonteQuest]

Peak oil isn't a problem to be solved, it is a milestone in an unsustainaible world paradigm.

Pretty sentence, but what does it mean? That there's no point in doing anything about peak oil?

That you ask that question illustrates my point in spades:

Ideologically, we need an ecological worldview; a paradigm shift in our thinking about the world about us. Which brings us to a conundrum: it is difficult, if almost impossible (even in scientific discussions) for people of one paradigm to communicate with those who perceive and reason in terms dictated by another different paradigm. We all need to be on the same page and we are not.

With the current world view, we look at every problem as if it were a nail. Thus, a hammer is the solution.

No point in doing anything about peak oil? Hardly, we just need to apply solutions, not fixes. We need to address the disease, not the symptoms.

So, the transition we need to do is not from fossil fuels to renewables, but from an infinite growth mindset to one of sustainability based upon the received solar flux and the earth’s ability to absorb our impact through the environmental sinks. We are already burdened with un-repayable debt, unbridled population growth, rampant environmental toxicity, increasing loss of biodiversity, scarcity of resources, and alarming reports of increased global warming; all consequences of our collective hubris. We need to address all of these issues, not just energy production.

Peak Oil: The Tip of the Iceberg

[napoleon]

Why argue paradigm, lets the imbeciles flutter away while we get ready.

The best way to reduce population is for the strong to kill off the weak. Make sure you're the strong and let the weak stay weak and unprepared.