[seldom_seen]

double post, deleted.

[seldom_seen]

Until we got in their faces they really were quite peaceful.

haha, okay.

That's all true if you convienently overlook history. Or just don't know history. The sacking of India, where they burned and pillaged their way across the country smashing hindu temples and building mosques in their place. The Armenian genocide, where they slaughtered over 1 million Armenians. The conquest of North Africa wasn't done by guys going door to door on bicycles with korans.

There used to be many christians and jews spread across the middle east. Where are they now?

The true history of islam (not the PC version that most americans seem to be brainwashed with) lends more credibility to Aaron's statements than yours.

[Zardoz]

...haha...

Yeah, okay. Bad example. I keep thinking of the Turks as Europeans.

I guess that came from the many older people I know who lived in Muslim countries for a time. They all said they were quite mellow back in the day.

Of course, they wouldn't think of living in those places now...

[jesus_of_suburbia_old]

So, if I am following this logic correctly, PO.com really isn't for us, it's for Aaron. He founded this site because he felt it would improve his chances for survival. It was a desperate effort. If (a big if, by the way) the message that we must make a non-violent transition to a world without fossil fuels can take hold with the masses, it can potentially reduce his suffering.

It's kind of like when a celebrity contracts some terminal illness only to later set up a research foundation to cure that illness.

If Aaron, let's say, wishes you good health before surgery or gives his condolences for a family members death, he is only being a good salesman. He wants you on his site. He wants you to buy his message. More importantly, he wants to right people to buy his message. If you buy his message, maybe you can get other the buy it. If they buy it, his chance to survive and reduce his suffering has improved.

I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just trying to give my interpretation. However, why should I really worry about insulting you? I don't find you all that important to me or my survival.

I personally don't care if global warming kills off every species of plant or animal. If we were able to survive comfortably, I'd say burn every possible hydrocarbon and pave every field. Obviously, we can't do that, which is why I would support a global powerdown.

Is all that "bad" stuff about humanity true? Probably. But, if it's hard-wired into us, it can't be "bad". Nature is neutral. It doesn't recognize good or evil.

I ask, "Who gives a fuck?". It's exhausting and fruitless to think about. I think people just like to feel smart, so they feel the need to drag it on and on and on. How many discussions have we had about this, anyway? They usually take up more than several pages until someone ignites the next one under a different title.

[rogerhb]

It was a desperate effort. If (a big if, by the way) the message that we must make a non-violent transition to a world without fossil fuels can take hold with the masses, it can potentially reduce his suffering.

Hm, that idea, encouraging people to be non-violent, it has a familiar ring to it, can't quite put my finger on it, but somehow I think Christmas and Easter are related to this idea.......

[Aaron]

So, if I am following this logic correctly, PO.com really isn't for us, it's for Aaron. He founded this site because he felt it would improve his chances for survival. It was a desperate effort. If (a big if, by the way) the message that we must make a non-violent transition to a world without fossil fuels can take hold with the masses, it can potentially reduce his suffering.

Not really,

I'm an evolutionary "dead-end" since I believe in cooperation, sharing and better living through education.


And I'm not here because I think I can make any real difference in the end.

I think I will be consumed by the machine & fail miserably.

I think all my efforts to promote awareness & education will come to nothing, and those like me will be crushed under the jack-boot of the ignorant masses.

Desperate fight against overwhelming odds?

Count me in...

[JustinFrankl]

"I've always wanted to fight a desperate battle against incredible odds."
-- Grig the Navigator, "The Last Starfighter"

[Zardoz]

...I'm an evolutionary "dead-end" since I believe in cooperation, sharing and better living through education....I think I will be consumed by the machine & fail miserably...I think all my efforts to promote awareness & education will come to nothing, and those like me will be crushed under the jack-boot of the ignorant masses...

No, you won't. The ignorant masses will have to educate themselves right quick. They will then have to cooperate and pull together, because there will be no other option. The Mad Max scenario is 100% dysfunctional.

We will cooperate or we will perish. Those who do not cooperate will have life made very hard for them by the rest of us. Cooperation will be forced upon all of us, one way or another. We'll join the effort, or we won't be allocated any of the meager resources available. Predators, opportunists, and exploiters of misery will be weeded out. We won't be able to tolerate them, so we won't.

Does anyone have another workable scenario? Keyword is "workable".

[Aaron]

Code: Select all

No, you won't. The ignorant masses will have to educate themselves right quick. They will then have to cooperate and pull together, because there will be no other option. The Mad Max scenario is 100% dysfunctional.

Not sure where you are coming from on this one...

Since when did dysfunctional become unrealistic?

It's like our best thing...

And I have the impression that the masses will only cooperate at the end of a pointy stick.

[coyote]

I personally don't care if global warming kills off every species of plant or animal. If we were able to survive comfortably, I'd say burn every possible hydrocarbon and pave every field.

I care, quite a lot. Luckily for us, not everyone feels the way you do.

[Liamj]

"I've always wanted to fight a desperate battle against incredible odds."
-- Grig the Navigator, "The Last Starfighter"

Yee hah! And we don't even have to travel for this one, its coming to us.

[Liamj]

...
And I have the impression that the masses will only cooperate at the end of a pointy stick.

Too pat. US Republicans have shown how poor people can be convinced to vote against their personal financial and class interests, even as their situation worsens, with astute manipulation of framing in public discussion (if you agree with George Lakoff, which i do).
If it can be done with free market fundamentalism, then why not with sustainability, which a 'strict father' should adhere to out of parental responsibility and basic competence. Now, if only we had a few media networks, thirty years, and millions of dollars in annual thinktank funding....

[Lighthouse]

I personally don't care if global warming kills off every species of plant or animal. If we were able to survive comfortably, I'd say burn every possible hydrocarbon and pave every field.

Let me guess, your first name starts with a Ge and you are not a tree ...