[GotToStopGreed]

Hi all, John MacLeod here- just your average Joe. Came across this site in the normal way most do- during a search of oil greed - lol. During my search and need to try to change the environment of Greed to NEED. And that is a battle won by many- heck- millions will be needed. But I fight on. Little ole average "Joe", me. I have made Canadian sites to battle this Greed and will launch soon in Feb. under the same topic name with dot Biz/Com/Ca covered so far. Still beta testing the heck out of them and still doing modifications to the feedback I get- so give me some if you get the chance to take a look. - After our Elections are complete I will launch what I feel will be a start to the end of the GREED that exists today. I hope you all wish me great success in my battle against Greed. It will be a hard fight.

[NeoPeasant]

Billions are spent to make us want all kinds of things we don't need. Unfortunately no one is spending any money to make us stop wanting stuff, because that would be a really bad investment.
The unspoken rule of western civilization is make as much money as your intellegence, ambition and ethical boundries allow, and spend all of it on the self indulgences of your choice.
The key challenge of the necessary culture change to come is to make people stop wanting all the stuff they don't really need.

Is that sort of what you're talking about?

[Eddie_lomax]

Reminds me of that line in Fight club

"Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. "

Thinking about the poll, I actually do believe we can change and at least limit the greed, but I cannot see mankind learning this lesson without being taught the hard way.

[BlueGhost]

The 'hard way' isn't going to teach mankind anything. We'll just re-adjust our goals and expectations downwards.
You're not going to see a new era of co-operation and contentment just because we run out of oil.

I think the only hope is an education system which teaches people decent social skills. And demonstrates that more junk does not acctually make for happier people.

[GotToStopGreed]

Great replies- Great thoughts. But the underlying means to many of our problems exist to the core problem of the need many have for the extra - the extra greed. Greed is soon to be on the business target model to overcome. With the vast amounts of the untapped power advancing countries have moving forward with breakneck tecs- we will soon see business formatted revolts to the greed. Would you buy from a company that exists for family values? NOT stock-holder need that siphons money out of business to third party investors that care not for the core business. We have at least 4 Large Greed Environments - Political / Oil / Credit / Insurance . And for the most part they are monopolized by just a few. Harnessing the Greed back to formatted Business/Family need will become a very profitable business in the years to come. Just a thought - and a hope of things to come.

[killJOY]

We also need to stop defecation.

Defecation is gross.


'Bout that same chance as stopping greed.

[NeoPeasant]

Harnessing the Greed back to formatted Business/Family need will become a very profitable business in the years to come.

So you're saying that profit will motivate us to move to a culture not based on greed?

[GotToStopGreed]

Yes responsible profit with responsible business. Ones that will take care of the employee / customer / and business itself. One that will re-invest strongly in those areas. This format to all avenues. Its almost like one of Hubbard's initial ideas before they were preverted into an off-shoot of a religious model.

[BKWorldEnergy]

Great replies- Great thoughts. But the underlying means to many of our problems exist to the core problem of the need many have for the extra - the extra greed. Greed is soon to be on the business target model to overcome. With the vast amounts of the untapped power advancing countries have moving forward with breakneck tecs- we will soon see business formatted revolts to the greed. Would you buy from a company that exists for family values? NOT stock-holder need that siphons money out of business to third party investors that care not for the core business. We have at least 4 Large Greed Environments - Political / Oil / Credit / Insurance . And for the most part they are monopolized by just a few. Harnessing the Greed back to formatted Business/Family need will become a very profitable business in the years to come. Just a thought - and a hope of things to come.

How do you figure Oil is a "greed environment" or any of the rest of them for that matter? Your canadian energy industry is an arm of your population, amde of your population, to acquire cheap and plentiful energy for you to stay alive. Insurance make it possible to replace things you lose you otherwise would not have been able to replace. How is oil or energy monoplized by a few?

I am not sure I understand.

[GotToStopGreed]

BK - first you have to see the industries you say are needed as just that- needed. But these industries run on number crunches for the most part. They use the vast amount of money they get from many to pay the few that need it ( insurance) and the formula's to pay out are far exceeded by the amounts taken in. Thus the formula's that say YOU pay so much are slanted to the business side- Fair . But the slanting to the extreme are what exists to date. And the globalization of these companies allow for them to allow the subscriber to they insurance rates from around the world now to pay for costs that DO NOT exist in the region thay say you pay for. So the rate that says you live in an area that needs a high auto rate is not representative of the actual are you live in. Ask yourself when is last time you seen an insurance corporation claim a lose for over a 2 to 3 yr period as most industies do in environment that is advertised as being so pressed for profits?

[Kickinthegob]

Hi John, I wrote you a little poem over a cup of tea, I am no poet as you soon will see

The battle against greed is good indeed
But fighting that battle will never succeed
When I come to your town to trade with my beads
The most selfish interests it surely does feed
The town may think it has done a good deed
But someone has come away with more than they need
And now has been planted a very small seed
That does but one thing, grow like a weed!
So take notice, take heed
That path we have choosen, we know where it leads
The publicly traded global multinational corporation, and their lemmings of greed!

[BKWorldEnergy]

BK - first you have to see the industries you say are needed as just that- needed. But these industries run on number crunches for the most part. They use the vast amount of money they get from many to pay the few th

I do not know about insurance and your other examples, indeed I am a bit skeptical of how the formula work out myself, but the oil and gas energy is powered by geologists and engineers. Three guys with degrees in the hard sciences can put some funding together and develop oil and nat gas that we all need to get from point a to point b and to keep the lights on.

Yes, there are accountants and finance people, but there is a reason for them to be there - it's to manage a business that has to have hundreds of millions of dollars for one project that may or may not work out.

Those are extremes obviously, but they illustrate the point - our oil and gas industry is not just number crunchers - far from it. As one might expect, the bigger the company the more slippage there is in costs - some call that overhead. It's normal. More overhead means more cost of product. It's the same thing for cheeseburgers or toothpaste.

But I heartily object to classifying the people in the oil and gas industry categorically as greedy and money focused. There will always be some, but that is true of any industry from the biggest to the smallest.

Quite frankly our desire for cheap energy and our belief that we are entitled to it keeps them doing what they are doing. If there is someone to blame - it is you and me.

[Epyx]

The 'hard way' isn't going to teach mankind anything. We'll just re-adjust our goals and expectations downwards.
You're not going to see a new era of co-operation and contentment just because we run out of oil.

I think the only hope is an education system which teaches people decent social skills. And demonstrates that more junk does not acctually make for happier people.

Actually, I believe that society shapes the one you are. If we would suffer a global economy crash we would probably learn from this. First, I'd expect chaos, looting, riots, murders and corruption but imo in the big perspective - we are going to learn from this if the impact of Peak Oil is as bad as some people predict it to be.

[untothislast]

You can't eliminate greed. Greed is an expression of the deep underlying insecurity which governs our actions - and choice of actions. Being relatively complex animals, we are subject to a wide range of psychological flaws, and as history has proven, the crucial majority of us will never rise above them.

Better to work on providing environments where people feel their individual personalities and talents are given full expression and recognition, without them having to resort to buying and hoarding stuff they don't need, for sense of reassurance.

[Doly]

Better to work on providing environments where people feel their individual personalities and talents are given full expression and recognition, without them having to resort to buying and hoarding stuff they don't need, for sense of reassurance.

I don't think people buy stuff to get reassurance. People buy stuff because they're constantly told by hundreds of advertisers that if they buy this or that they'll be happy. And if you are told something enough times, you end up believing it. It sounds stupid, but it's absolutely true.

[bobcousins]

Greed is genetically programmed, you are trying to overcome it with "cultural programming". It is at least an interesting experiment. All social interaction is driven by two factors, greed and co-operation, so eliminating one is a big ask.

The theory says that even if you genetically engineeer people to be not greedy, greedy people will evolve anyway.

I think one major problem is getting people to recognise when they are being greedy. People like to accuse other people of it, but never admit to it themselves.

Another problem, the world of business is set up so natural selection takes place. In the long run a company slightly more greedy than another will do better. Eventually an equilibrium is reached, but it is mainly composed of the most greedy.

So to persuade people that they are greedy, then that they should not be, or to completely change the way the economy works, and also prevent an alternative. Those are tough targets! At this stage, it is worth a try.

[Ludi]

Get rid of greed (the "getting and having" impulse) and you get rid of a LOT of jobs.

What will those people do for a living?

[Madpaddy]

It has been argued that all human action (even good deeds) are fundamentally driven by self interest. There has always been greed but we are now at a point in human development where greed is no longer good contrary to what Gordon Gecko said so memorably in "Wall Street". Greed and the motivation of individuals for recognition, fame and wealth has been the major driving force and maybe the only driving force in the technological advance of the human race. Now, however, we can see all around us that we are hitting limits to this continuing advancement in terms of biodiversity, mineral resources of all types and of course energy. For those people who make the transition from the bigger, faster higher modern society of instant gratification to the future society of less is more, things might be idyllic. But, even then you can be sure that there will be greedy people. Greed motivates and drives people but if this makes people damage the people or environment around them, then it is wrong.

[rogerhb]

Get rid of greed (the "getting and having" impulse) and you get rid of a LOT of jobs.

What will those people do for a living?

What was the unemployment rate in pre-industrial times?

In the 1970s they said with automation we would have more leisure time.

Guess they are going to have lots of "leisure time". The law does not say you have to go to DisneyWorld, you could spend all this "leisure time" in the garden. I hope you are debt free.

Is there a law that says every one has to get in debt up to the eyeballs?

Guess if you don't want to spend time in the garden you could riot or something.

[yandoo]

i actually do beleive that greed can be beaten! to be fair, i have my share of material posessions but do realise they are all false and not real.

i have 3 times only had a backpack (with nearly nothing in) and the clothes i was wearing! The HAPPIEST time of my life!