[ralfy]

"George Soros Urged Use Of Eastern European Soldiers To "Reduce The Risk Of Body-Bags For NATO Countries" In 'New World Order' Article"

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... -countries

“The United States would not be called upon to act as the policeman of the world. When it acts, it would act in conjunction with others. Incidentally, the combination of manpower from Eastern Europe with the technical capabilities of NATO would greatly enhance the military potential of the Partnership because it would reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act. This is a viable alternative to the looming world disorder,” wrote Soros in the article.

[Newfie]

Right or wrong (morally) it was an accurate view of the future.

Where he was wrong was in supposing a dominate New World Order based upon a complete ascendence of Globalism. That now appears to be a failed theory. We are slowly moving into the alternative which seems to be something like
Regionalism with Global Connections.

Even that may not be sustainable, but it is the next stop on this train ride to degrowth/sustainability. If we can not find stability at that level of organization then further steps will likely require a significant reduction in technology beyond a few tech oasis, at best. Including a very steel reduction in population.

[Tanada]

Right or wrong (morally) it was an accurate view of the future.

Where he was wrong was in supposing a dominate New World Order based upon a complete ascendence of Globalism. That now appears to be a failed theory. We are slowly moving into the alternative which seems to be something like
Regionalism with Global Connections.

Even that may not be sustainable, but it is the next stop on this train ride to degrowth/sustainability. If we can not find stability at that level of organization then further steps will likely require a significant reduction in technology beyond a few tech oasis, at best. Including a very steel reduction in population.

Long distance trade has been part of human existence even into stone age cultures. The Mississippians of the 1200's in North America had trade networks from Texas to Ohio and Illinois. Rome in 400 AD had items for sale from as far away as Scotland in the northwest and India in the southeast and the period following had trade along the Chinese 'silk road' from east Asia to Portugal in the east-west direction and Scandinavia to Timbuktu in central Africa in the 1200's. Globalism isn't at all necessary for long distance trade and actually has a gradual stifling effect because why trade when everything everywhere is uniform? Unique items are the core of trade and in a uniform world uniqueness is eliminated one way or another.

Empires only exist when two conditions are met, the central culture is vibrant and willing to suppress surrounding cultures is the necessary first stage. Secondly the suppressed cultures must see enough benefits from being part of the empire to be willing to accept that suppression permanently or at least multi-generationally. When Rome conquered Gaul the natives benefited in the next generations to being part of the empire. They adopted the imperial language of latin down to the lowest ranks of society and made themselves into citizens over several generations. When the barbarian hordes moved in and conquered those same areas in the 400-500 AD period they did all the same bad things as the Romans during the conquest period but none of the good things generationally. As a result their language and culture was not adopted by the masses and by 600 AD they had been absorbed into the conquered people instead of the other way around. Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Huns et al came in fire and brimstone and passed out of existence as a flash in the pan. The people they terrorized kept right on speaking latin which gradually evolved into the different romance languages (named for Rome not Romantic intent) Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, Romanian, Classical Brittanish, Belgian Flemish, West Swiss all have their roots firmly in Latin. Classical Brittanish was wiped out by the invasion of the Anglo-Saxons from modern Denmark and northern Germany, the Albanians and Balkan peoples gave up their Latin roots when the Slavic peoples invaded and settled en masse in the 600's and the Austrians and western German tribes switched back to German as migratory bands moved in and settled even though during the height of the Roman period they spoke Latin. In these three examples the empire buildings caused a language shift by bringing in enough members of their culture to replace the culture which existed before they arrived. Later the Vikings moved into trading and raiding networks extending throughout Europe from as far away as Kiev and Ireland east to west but whenever they moved in permanently the viking married local women and adopted local languages so Gaelic was still common in Ireland and Norman French was still common in northern France and Kievan Rus being the slavic language of Kiev despite the ruling class being a bunch of big blond and red haired blue eyed types from Scandinavia.

Globalism at its roots tried to have it both ways, it wanted a common language, often English, but local customs and multi-cultural diversity. This quite simply doesn't work long term. As American power has waned since the 1980's the local cultures have been slowly reasserting themselves in language and practices, rightly so, returning the world to a multi-polar multi cultural state which the Globalists never figured out how to effectively integrate into a global cultural imperative.

[Newfie]

Thanks Tanada,

I always appreciate your historical perspective.

[ralfy]

Soros was referring to proxy wars. That is, let others do the dying. It already had enough with Vietnam, although it was able to minimize its own casualties in the latter, and later in Iraq and Afghanistan, through carpet-bombing and the use of MOABs.

This fulfills the following criteria:

Most Americans don't want to serve, don't want to fight, and aren't qualified to fight.

The rich, which own the U.S., earn by keeping the dollar strong, selling arms, and then profiting from the suffering of those manipulated by them, which includes not only their fellow citizens but also foreigners.

Solution: proxy wars. Most Americans don't suffer from fighting, and other countries remain weak, which makes the dollar strong, and which in turn allows the country to continuously create more debt, especially needed to pay for military costs and aid, and which makes everyone happy: businesses and households with additional credit, the rich with more credit for financial gambling, the military industrial complex with more sales and advanced armaments, and the government with a unipolar world.

The implication is that NATO is neither defensive nor an alliance. Rather, it's a sword that's needed to poke at the bear and now at the dragon:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/10/asia ... index.html

[Newfie]

Whole there is a lot to your argument in many cases the Ukraine case is different.

The point where we diverge is that proxy wars MAY increase consumption and globalization. The Ukraine war has disrupted global trade, decreased consumption, made trade harder by increasing distrust, and is threatening NATO/EU countries with a flood of MENA immigrants.

In general it is puling degrowth forward in time, trashing hopes for the WEF desired and pushed New World Order.

It has also done other things such as to strengthen NATO, which Russia did not want.

I am not saying your ideas are wrong in general, but just not appropriate for THIS conflict.

[ralfy]

"Gravitas Plus: Did NATO push Ukraine into war?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU

[theluckycountry]

"Gravitas Plus: Did NATO push Ukraine into war?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU

When you watch that video it becomes clear that NATO is basically an alliance of nations that have a history of invading Russia. Is it any wonder Russia responded in kind?

In today's bullshit world, the meet you at the mall, democratic peoples are bewildered at Russia's actions, but sooner or later one of these nations will again decide that it's time to invade Russia and all the bewildered people will don uniforms and slavishly cross the border to see if this time it's different, see if this time they can get their hands on the vast resources Russia is renown for.

There are no innocents in this world, just nations rising up to subjugate other nations, whether by tanks or by economic pressures and threats of retaliation if they don't hand over the goods. To believe an agency like NATO is good is a fast track to being cannon fodder in a future war of aggression. I can see millions dying in Europe in a future war, all the good and patriotic souls, and as they march off to battle the Islamic immigrants that infest their lands will stay behind and have a free for all with their wives and daughters. That is how things work in the real world.

Australia allowed hundreds of thousands of muslims to come here as refugees, then turned the tap off. They have caused some trouble here and there too but it was stomped on promptly! It never was allowed to escalate like in the Euro nations that are infested with them. Why do I belabor this issue? Because that is the real war facing the Euro nations, from Britain to Germany, a fifth column of radical warring peoples who have no interest in the nations they have settled in other than to loot and plunder.

Sweden was traditionally one of the most peaceful nations in Europe.

A self-proclaimed humanitarian superpower, Sweden took in the highest number of asylum seekers per capita during the migrant crisis of 2015. Many were refugees fleeing war and abuses in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Eritrea

.

A stark rise in incidents involving hand grenade explosions has become emblematic of the wider rise in violent crime in Swedish cities, report James Clayton and Caitlin Hanrahan for BBC Newsnight.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43667367

That was 2018

Now in 2023

A Swedish law enacted in 2017 to halt the importation of hand grenades intercepted just five in five years, meanwhile the country saw hundreds of bombings and explosions, many of which are known to have been caused by smuggled grenades.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/0 ... ive-years/

I assure you it's not the peaceful ethnic Swede's that are responsible for this. It is the immigrants from the middle-eastern war zones. Russia is the last thing these Nato countries need to worry about now.

[Tuike]

It’s official: Sweden to join NATO -politico
Sweden cleared the final hurdle to become the military alliance's 32nd member after Hungary — the last holdout among the countries — held a parliamentary vote to approve the move.

Now, all existing NATO allies have ratified the membership status of Sweden. A flag-raising ceremony is expected at NATO headquarters in Brussels later this week, less than a year after fellow Nordic country Finland joined the alliance.

HA! Take that Putin! Now our flank is secured if the old persecutor tries to make an amphibious landing to Sweden and attack Finland from west through Tornio. Or if they try to invade the traditional way through Karelian forests, we can get reinforcements from Sweden! Now the Baltic Sea is Nato inner sea!

[Plantagenet]

It’s official: Sweden to join NATO -politico
Sweden cleared the final hurdle to become the military alliance's 32nd member after Hungary — the last holdout among the countries — held a parliamentary vote to approve the move.

Now, all existing NATO allies have ratified the membership status of Sweden. A flag-raising ceremony is expected at NATO headquarters in Brussels later this week, less than a year after fellow Nordic country Finland joined the alliance.

HA! Take that Putin! Now our flank is secured if the old persecutor tries to make an amphibious landing to Sweden and attack Finland from west through Tornio. Or if they try to invade the traditional way through Karelian forests, we can get reinforcements from Sweden! Now the Baltic Sea is Nato inner sea!

Putin's invasion of Ukraine was supposed to stop NATO from expanding...instead NATO has added Finland and Sweden and is stronger then ever.

Putin's dismal failure to prevent NATO from expanding can only be compared to the leader of HAMAS who says Hamas's plan when it attacked Israel was to prevent more Israeli attacks on Gaza.


The only thing dumber than Putin's plan to invade Ukraine to prevent NATO from expanding is the HAMAS plan to do a murderous raid on Israel to prevent Israel from attacking GAZA.

Cheers!

[ralfy]

The irony, from 2009:

"Obama administration says Russia could join NATO"

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... join-nato/

[yellowcanoe]

The irony, from 2009:

"Obama administration says Russia could join NATO"

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... join-nato/

The Soviet Union also turned down the offer of Marshall Plan aid after WW2 and prevented east European countries from receiving it too!

[ralfy]

The irony, from 2009:

"Obama administration says Russia could join NATO"

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... join-nato/

The Soviet Union also turned down the offer of Marshall Plan aid after WW2 and prevented east European countries from receiving it too!

Likely because the U.S. was screwing with "allies" like the Philippines through the Bell Trade Act and then, as the Pentagon Papers later revealed, planning similar for Indochina.

And this went on for decades, with tools like Biden seeing countries like Israel as tools to control the Middle East, where NATO joined the U.S. in military adventurism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLNCcLfIkM

That's the same NATO that just recently not only tried to set up shop in Japan but unwittingly revealed that the real goal of the "defensive" alliance is to secure the international financial system from which it earns and which is dominated by the U.S.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_222258.htm

China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea are increasingly aligned. Together, they subvert sanctions and pressure. Weaken the US dollar-based international financial system. Fuel Russian war in Europe. And exploit challenges to our societies, such as terrorism, disruptive technologies, or migration.

And the goal for Israel, as Biden pointed out back in the 1980s, is also that of Ukraine:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... -road-map/

[theluckycountry]

Security first: Every Israeli government promises, first and foremost, that it will deliver security—and knows it will be judged on this pledge. Ordinary citizens, not just politicians, pay close attention to security threats—both from across borders and from internal sources— and much of the public chooses who to elect by that metric alone.

Of course, with their history I would expect nothing less of the people. Makes you wonder about the supposed free-gaza crap spoken by some Jews and the opinions that the people want to overthrow the Premier because of his actions. I know there are some peace protesters there, I have seen the videos of the Israeli police manhandling them when they cross barricades but it's an isolated thing. The day the Jews lay down arms will be the day they go extinct.

[Tuike]

Ceremony to mark Sweden's accession to NATO, 11 MAR 2024 -youtube / NATO News

[theluckycountry]

Whatever happens in that shithole now hardly matters, it's a warzone, and the governments response? Have hand-grenade amnesties hoping the good hearted middle eastern gangs will hand then into police stations with the pins still in them.

Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sw ... 022-04-28/









A self-proclaimed humanitarian superpower, Sweden took in the highest number of asylum seekers per capita during the migrant crisis of 2015. Many were refugees fleeing war and abuses in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Eritrea.