[vtsnowedin]

If the government has to incentivize it or mandate it then it is certainly not a good idea.

[Shaved Monkey]

If the government has to incentivize it or mandate it then it is certainly not a good idea.

Thats an American BS ideology that governments are bad the market is good
Plenty of Government incentives for the fossil fuel industry...even fight wars for them

Im happy for the government to level the playing field

[theluckycountry]

I'm not a fan of Hydrogen powered vehicles given that they are all fueled from natGas rendered Hydrogen, but I think the tech has longer legs than the current battery-electric options that are plagued by all the problems of weight, explosions, and the expensive resource chain to build them. That said.

World's first commercial hydrogen-powered tram to be tested in Malaysia

China has developed the world's first hydrogen-powered smart tram. It departed Zhuzhou, Hunan province, on Friday and will be shipped from Shanghai to Malaysia in the coming days...
The vehicle adopts a hydrogen-powered propulsion system, which has the advantages of longer driving range, shorter refueling time, and lower carbon emissions. It also adopts a 70 MPa hydrogen storage system and a high-power fuel cell system, enabling it to achieve a range of up to 245 kilometers...

In July, 2022, CRRC Zhixing, a subsidiary of CRRC Zhuzhou Institute won the bid for the Kuching intelligent rail project, which consists of three lines totaling 69.9 kilometers and will be equipped with 38 smart trams.

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202307/ ... 17534.html

[Shaved Monkey]

Toyota Motor said Saturday it is conducting trials in Australia of a vehicle powered by a hydrogen engine, making it the automaker's first such test of the environmentally friendly car on public roads.

In the trial from late October through January, a specially modified van from Toyota's HiAce series is being used by local Melbourne construction and security firms to confirm the vehicle's operability and durability on roads.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles that are already in commercial use are powered by electric motors, while hydrogen engine cars are seen to have an advantage as they have many parts in common with gasoline engine cars.

Australia is a hydrogen-abundant country and is also active in using the energy source.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2 ... australia/

Hydrogen-fuelled Toyota HiAce twin-turbo V6 unveiled ahead of Australian pilot program

Toyota engineers have taken a 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6 from a Lexus LX600, some tanks from a Toyota Mirai sedan, and fitted them to a HiAce Commuter to make a hydrogen-powered van.

Engineers say there was little modification needed to convert the V6 to take hydrogen fuel – a change of fuel injectors and a new engine tune, while a different radiator was fitted to the HiAce to match the larger engine.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-hi ... uelled-v6/

[theluckycountry]

Rolls-Royce CEO Retreats On Hydrogen-Powered Airplane

Nov 29, 2023
Rolls-Royce Chief Executive Officer Tufan Erginbilgic told investors on a call Tuesday that fleets of hydrogen-powered aircraft for passenger flight won't happen anytime soon. "I don't believe in the next 15, 20 years hydrogen will play a role," Erginbilgic said. Bloomberg also noted Rolls-Royce plans to "dispose of its electrical business that develops propulsion systems for aircraft such as flying taxis."

Erginbilgic said the company is making "choices on resource allocation" and that the electrical business unit would offer "better value to a third party." [an IPO in other words, where the new company can make a fortune on spin and hype]

The hype surrounding hydrogen-powered aircraft as a carbon-free solution for air travel has turned out to be a dud. Recently, there has been a noticeable decline in green stocks, including wind, solar, and hydrogen energy.

Take a look at iShares Global Clean Energy ETF versus the Nasdaq... Whoops!

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/r ... plane-push

Are we starting to see the pattern? The obvious decline of conventional energy sources led to a *frenetic* race to find ways to keep us driving to the mall and jetting to holiday destinations when the oil ran out. The new technologies were always fringe (economically speaking) yet they were sold in the media as a given transition. This I am afraid led far too many normally clear thinking people to believe in the dream, and subsequently pull the glass half empty meme on anyone who spoke against the Big Transition.

Electric car sales have reached peak uptake (a bumpy peak globally) Wind is toppling, Solar thermal went down the gurgler long ago, and now we're waiting for the uptake in Solar PV to run out of steam. Solar PV was actually a bright spot in all this mess but it has it's limits too, basically the limit of the grid to handle the intermittent generation. One day governments will have to restrict these to protect their grids and assure supply on cloudy days, and of course one day the artificially low China Price will pass into history just as it did with Japan.

But don't lose all hope! Especially if you are old, because you may be dead before you have to deal with the full realities of peakoil.

Frenetic: * fast and energetic in a rather wild and uncontrolled way: *

[Shaved Monkey]

Nov 29, 2023
Rolls-Royce Chief Executive Officer Tufan Erginbilgic told investors on a call Tuesday that fleets of hydrogen-powered aircraft for passenger flight won't happen anytime soon. "I don't believe in the next 15, 20 years hydrogen will play a role," Erginbilgic said.
..............................................................................................................
Thats about still selling engines today fleets and engines last a long time.
Making them run on SAF means BAU
.................................................................................................................
"While the company is working on hydrogen technology with discount carrier EasyJet Plc, Erginbilgic said he believes sustainable aviation fuel, or SAF, will be the sole pathway for large jets to achieve net zero climate targets."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -airplanes

However, there may well be a role for hydrogen in SAF production, as some producers use extra H2 in the Fischer-Tropsch method of production to increase yield.
And e-fuels made using renewable hydrogen and sustainable sources of carbon have also been touted as possible aviation fuel drop-ins.
Rolls-Royce continues to work on developing its hydrogen-fuelled jet engine as part of its research project with budget airline Easyjet, which this autumn revealed test results showing that 100% hydrogen-fuelled take off is technically possible.

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transpo ... ott=DqAh1V

[theluckycountry]

Today, 95% of the hydrogen produced in the United States is made by natural gas reforming in large central plants. This is an important technology pathway for near-term hydrogen production.

No it's not. It's just a way to take a cheap energy and turn it into an expensive energy, totally retarded!

Most hydrogen produced today in the United States is made via steam-methane reforming, a mature production process in which high-temperature steam (700°C–1,000°C) is used to produce hydrogen from a methane source, such as natural gas. In steam-methane reforming, methane reacts with steam under 3–25 bar pressure (1 bar = 14.5 psi) in the presence of a catalyst to produce hydrogen, carbon monoxide,

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/h ... -reforming
That's where the expense comes in, heating water to 1000°C, and then all the infrastructure, those plants aren't cheap.

This is an important technology pathway for near-term hydrogen production.

No, it's a waste of energy. Just burn the damn gas and if you want to "transition" to Green hydrogen energy economy, just start there. It's not like nuclear fusion, it's been done via electrolysis for 100 years. Split water, not NatGas

The spin

Will it be clean hydrogen in Australia, or ammonia? The $2 billion question https://www.pacificgreen.com/articles/w ... -question/

So you make ammonia from natgas, like planned for in Gladstone, and ship it around the world then extract the hydrogen, it's all BS though, a cover story. The real use of the bulk of this ammonia is fertilizer.

Natural gas molecules are reduced to carbon and hydrogen. The hydrogen is then purified and reacted with nitrogen to produce ammonia.

Revolutionizing fertilizer production: Green Ammonia’s rise

Researchers at UNSW Sydney, along with their collaborators, have made a significant breakthrough in producing green ammonia... This innovation addresses one of the most carbon-intensive industrial processes and could revolutionize how ammonia is produced for fertilizers.

Traditionally, ammonia production has depended on high-energy processes, operating at temperatures above 400°C and pressures over 200 atmospheres. These methods are responsible for 2% of the world’s energy usage and 1.8% of its CO2 emissions.

https://www.fertilizerdaily.com/2023111 ... nias-rise/

The Gas is used to make Hydrogen, which is used to make ammonia, which is used to make fertilizer, which is used to keep 8 Billion people alive. 2% of the world’s energy usage

I researched the "Green" plant up near Gladstone, their plan is to build the facility with tens of thousands of solar panels to split water and make Hydrogen. That's the media claim, but they are building it right beside the main gas line into the port of Gladstone, so guess what...

Why lie about all this? Because the government doesn't fund multinationals to build fertilizer plants but they do subsidize "Green Energy" endeavors. Just follow the money as usual.

Malcolm Turnbull to stay at Fortescue

The board of mining billionaire Andrew Forrest’s green energy business Fortescue Futures Industries is now defunct, but former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull is not expected to join the list of senior figures exiting the company.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-eco ... 5e0mt.html

There are no more suitcases of cash, just million dollar jobs guaranteed at retirement.

Mining billionaire, Andrew Forrest, continues to ramp up Australia's renewable export industry after partnering with the Queensland government to create a hydrogen mega-manufacturing centre on the state's central coast.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/min ... en-4042637

Bonus Link for Shaved Monkey https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/aus ... rn-4802609