EnergyUnlimited wrote:Far better way forward for them was to accept non-NATO neutral status and give away territories already under Russian control - to avoid this war.
It's too late for that option now -- Russia itself made that option impossible when they invaded Ukraine almost two years ago. Once Russia invaded Ukraine had to choice but to go to war to defend itself from being conquered by Russia.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Finland have managed it with Stalin, so why they wouldn't?
??????
You can't see how what happened in Ukraine and Finland is different?
Please allow me to explain the difference.....
Stalin invaded Finland in WWII, and Finland gave up territory to Russia in a peace treaty after WWII. And that seemed to satisfy Stalin....at least he didn't invade and take more land or try to conquer all of Finland.
Ukriane actually responded much the same way as Finland when Putin sent in Russian special forces and invaded Crimea about 9 years ago. Ukraine (and the west) didn't do much about it. But Putin is worse than Stalin.....Even though he had successfully seized Crimea Putin fomented rebellion in eastern Ukraine to seize more land, and then he invaded central Ukraine with the main Russian army about two years ago to try and conquer all of Ukriane.. Putins second invasion designed to totally conquer all of Ukraine was beyond anything Stalin tried to do in Finland. And If the Ukrianians hadn't fought back when the Russian tank column was headed for Kiev there would be Russian troops in Kiev today and Ukriane would have been forcibly incorporated in a new crypto USSR ruled by the pinhead midget Putin.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Czechs didn't fight and they were left far better off. Hungarians and Slovaks too... and Austrians, Dutch and you name it.
French quickly surrendered, formed collaborative government and now they are called winners.
So yes - we have committed suicide by undertaking an uphill struggle with no prospect of winning.
If you think being conquered by people like the Nazis and the modern reactionary Putiniks Russians out to recreate the 19th century Russian empire makes you "better off" then you are welcome to your opinion. Thank goodness most Poles don't share your ideas.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:We ended up with Warsaw and few other cities razed to ground and with 5-6 millions people killed - and all that to vain.
Other continental European nations were more clever.
The Nazis and Russians killed millions of Poles and destroyed Polish cities AFTER they conquered Poland. Your belief that this wouldn't have happened if Poland had surrendered quicker doesn't make any sense and isn't consistent with what actually happened in WWII.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Far from "committing suicide" as you claim, brave little Ukraine is actually heroically trying to stop the Russians from murdering its people, destroying its land, and ending its very existence as a country.
By now about 1/3 of population is dispersed or killed/maimed. Most of women of reproductive age have gone away and will never come back.
Wait for another year or two...
And how many millions of Ukrainians would've been murdered and displaced and sent to Russian labor camps if the Ukrainians had just surrendered? And what about future generation of million and millions of Ukrainians? Should they all have to live forever under the thumb of ignorant Russian Nationalist lunatics like Putin?
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Ukraine without Ukrainians you mean?
I never said that or thought that or posted that. That crazy thought originated in your mind and then you and you alone decided to post it. You can fantasize about Ukraine without Ukrainians all you want but please don't try to associate your crazy ideas with me.
Cheers!