mustang19 wrote:https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b00997
Major sustainability problem nobody talks about. Steel will eventually be too contaminated to continue recycling. In fact the recycling process is what causes this problem, if you just let it corrode it would return to the soil.
By 2050 recycling will be useless, you will need to make new steel with wood/iron ore and the price of everything will be more (not that anyone will live that long).
Newfie wrote:It is an interesting problem. I have been hearing non-specific complaints about steel in recent years. The complaint is generally that current steel has a high percent of recycled material and the product is inferior. I have also heard of steel products being contaminated with other material besides copper, to the extent of special heat resistant bolts finding their way into plate or bar.
It seems the general degeneration of steel is a genuine concern. Thanks file it in the “Resource Depletion” bin if things I worry about for humanity. Just another nail in the coffin.
The steel industry in North America has been recycling steel scrap for more than 150 years. The steel industry needs scrap to produce new steel, which ensures that all steel products contain anywhere from 25 percent up to 100 percent recycled content. It also is cheaper to recycle steel than it is to mine virgin ore to manufacture new steel. New ore is still mined in order to supplement production of steel and steel products.
Subjectivist wrote:This is a silly topic, running scrap steel back through basic refining to separate the iron from the alloying elements. Then you can recombine them in whatever formula you prefer.
Abstract
Copper and tin, as tramp elements in the steel scrap, cause some harmful effects, such as hot shortness caused by a loss of ductility and surface defects. It is also difficult to maintain the quality of the product because the amount of the residual constituents in steel scrap is not consistent. The secondary steel products require consistent copper content and standard due to the limited use of the product for the various applications. Thermodynamically, removing copper from scrap is a viable option, but in reality, the impurities and the included copper in the melt of steel scrap are difficult to remove by conventional methods. Besides, the research of the recycled steel scrap regarding iron and impurities is limited, and it needs to be conducted, in terms of physical and chemical techniques, as the preliminary study to find the efficient separation method.
Newfie wrote:Try googling
Recycled steel copper contamination
It seems it is a real thing. Not catastrophic in itself, but something that is problematic.
One paper is linked below. There are others.
Abstract
Copper and tin, as tramp elements in the steel scrap, cause some harmful effects, such as hot shortness caused by a loss of ductility and surface defects. It is also difficult to maintain the quality of the product because the amount of the residual constituents in steel scrap is not consistent. The secondary steel products require consistent copper content and standard due to the limited use of the product for the various applications. Thermodynamically, removing copper from scrap is a viable option, but in reality, the impurities and the included copper in the melt of steel scrap are difficult to remove by conventional methods. Besides, the research of the recycled steel scrap regarding iron and impurities is limited, and it needs to be conducted, in terms of physical and chemical techniques, as the preliminary study to find the efficient separation method.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 ... 36830-2_34
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
theluckycountry wrote:Somehow I think by 2050 copper contamination will not be the issue with steel recycling, powering the arc furnaces will. Oh yes, that's right, endless fields of solar panels lol lol.
An actual problem there is that generally, the education level of such a large proportion of the voting and working public is so poor that they can't tell the difference between credible fact and various sorts of nonsense. Even with the internet to use their supposed educations and do some checking.
Doly wrote:An actual problem there is that generally, the education level of such a large proportion of the voting and working public is so poor that they can't tell the difference between credible fact and various sorts of nonsense. Even with the internet to use their supposed educations and do some checking.
It's true that the education level is less than ideal, but also, the Internet doesn't exactly help with checking. There is plenty of misinformation floating around, and some of the misinformation has been made to look like it's been produced by experts.
Yeah every time I ran into one of those types I always thought of a SG-1 quote:AdamB wrote:But in terms of education in general, I don't think education explains it all. Such was my assumption, 15 years ago when I entered the peak oil world, "if only they knew more", "if only i could show them references and knowledge", "if only they knew this science"...if only"...."if only"...."
I started dealing with the folks who only had PhD's, figuring that education wasn't the issue with them, by definition. What I learned instead is that belief is far more powerful than education. Education only meant they could use intelligience and their experience (even within the fields of science in question) to justify their beliefs, defend their beliefs, and could ignore facts and logic just as steadfast as a religious zealot. Heaven's Gaters with degrees if you will.
So no, education isn't itself a solution, and misinformation just makes it worse because now to even become educated you've got to understand how to tell good information from bad.
SG-1[It doesn't matter what the truth is. They won't hear of it, no matter what you say. They wouldn't know the truth if it was standing right in front of them. It's all lies and propaganda as far as they're concerned: we're wrong, they're right, they're good, we're bad.
kublikhan wrote:Yeah every time I ran into one of those types I always thought of a SG-1 quote:SG-1[It doesn't matter what the truth is. They won't hear of it, no matter what you say. They wouldn't know the truth if it was standing right in front of them. It's all lies and propaganda as far as they're concerned: we're wrong, they're right, they're good, we're bad.
kublikhan wrote:[It doesn't matter what the truth is. They won't hear of it, no matter what you say. They wouldn't know the truth if it was standing right in front of them. It's all lies and propaganda as far as they're concerned: we're wrong, they're right, they're good, we're bad.
mousepad wrote:But how do you guys know the truth?
mousepad wrote:Could it be that the truth is not reachable at all?
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