[aadbrd]

But it hasn't gone away. Look at Iran or North Korea and tensions with Russia are flaring.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Interesting little knowledge nugget, during the last 4 years the media was so obsessed with domestic politics it appears the concept of Nuclear War was not worthy of mentioning in mainstream media.

Now that the media is almost all run by large profit-driven corporations, it's not at all surprising to me that the MSM is focused on the topics that they think will sell the most of various products, and thus draw the most advertising revenue. (If nuclear war becomes a short term threat that can attract LOTS of eyeballs and ears in the media, it will suddenly be a popular topic again, IMO).

I'd rather go back to when media was required to provide news as a SERVICE to earn their right to the bandwidth and resources that let them operate, re the FCC enforcing the rules. But in the modern era where corporations seem to have more and more say in how things run, returning to that idea of balance and responsibility and objectivity seems like a pipe dream.

[Ibon]

I'd rather go back to when media was required to provide news as a SERVICE to earn their right to the bandwidth and resources that let them operate, re the FCC enforcing the rules. But in the modern era where corporations seem to have more and more say in how things run, returning to that idea of balance and responsibility and objectivity seems like a pipe dream.

This is related to a point I made earlier that information has lost its filter of quality and is now abundant, cheap and like trash.

[Tanada]

Here is a depressing bit of PEW polling. Fully 35% of Americans from both major political parties think we should participate in the Ukraine/Russia conflict even if it leads to a nuclear exchange/nuclear war. What has happened to American culture that a nuclear war is no longer considered too high a risk to be acceptable to over a third of our population? More details at link below quoted s.

Public Expresses Mixed Views of U.S. Response to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
...
The new Pew Research Center survey, conducted March 7-13, 2022, among 10,441 U.S. adults on the Center’s American Trends Panel, finds wide partisan differences in views of the administration’s handling of the crisis and the level of support the U.S. has provided to Ukraine.

However, virtually identical shares in both parties – 51% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents and 50% of Democrats and Democratic leaners – regard the Russian invasion as a “major threat” to U.S. interests...

However, most Americans (62%) say they would oppose the U.S. “taking military action even if it risks a nuclear conflict with Russia.” About a third (35%) of Americans say they would favor military action in this scenario. Comparable shares in both parties (36% of Republicans, 35% of Democrats) say they would favor military action even if it risks nuclear conflict with Russia...

PEW Poll

[Pops]

On the bright side, that's the most agreement between the parties in a long time aside . I told my grandaughter a while back that what America need is a good war.

[vtsnowedin]

There is a big difference between 'willing to risk' a Nuclear war and actually intending to start one. Publicly stating that you will not risk one neuters yourself and hands the opposition the win without a shot being fired.
While being able to take a risk is just that ,a risk,to announce your unwillingness results in your assured loss.

[Tanada]

On the bright side, that's the most agreement between the parties in a long time aside . I told my grandaughter a while back that what America need is a good war.

If you read the whole article the survey actually found a lot more agreement among voters on multiple aspects than are usually seen in these sort of surveys.

My concern is folks no longer perceiving nuclear war as Mutually Assured Destruction. It isn't as if there is some magic line between a weapon used to destroy an enemy military formation and an enemy city. Officially Hiroshima was targeted because of the huge army base at the edge of the city. However they did not use the center of the army base as the target point, they used the city center putting the army base at the edge of the severe damage zone and the civilian population density at ground zero.

For most of my life we have had the concept of mutual destruction as a way of discouraging use at any level, but if people believe the hype about missile defense they think they will be unscathed and the enemy destroyed. Sure we might shoot down a few incoming reentry vehicles, but there are still thousands of weapons out there on both sides. It hardly matters if we shoot down the first 100 when the next 1000 crash us back to the stone age.

[Newfie]

Tanada,

I understand your point. It is likely just that younger folks grew up with nukes within their risk matrix, it has become “normal.” And that is worrisome.

OTOH I also understand VT’s point that if you backdown from a belligerent then they have won and you promote that belligerence.

USA has been known to throw its weight around, not nuclear but to a small country can be a massive bully. China makes a point of presenting a helpful presence. The US seems tone deaf.

Putin has triggered a damn tricky situation. But it is inevitable that it would have come up sooner or later.

When, IF, we get past this we should redouble our denuclearization efforts.

[vtsnowedin]

China makes a point of presenting a helpful presence. .

Not following you on that one. Please elaborate.

[Pops]

I think the surprise should be that there are still people who value democracy over autocracy enough to fight for it, hypothetically, albeit with other people's kids. The particular strand of personality cult the US has developed and its anti-democratic trend I know has lots of people scared, existentially afraid of where WE are headed. That half the country thinks helping a people fight a zombie KGB dictator's invasion is worthwhile is probably the best sign of life our democracy has shown in a while.

I'm not a fan of the US military umbrella extended while other countries lay back and spend their own money elsewhere. But I admit, I'm more afraid of losing our country to a homegrown autocratic, christian nationalistic cult like trump kicked over, than being held hostage by putin. I'm happy to see the people who accused UA of rigging the vote against trump (while trump himself was using military aid to extort Zelinski) be outed as the sycophantic illiberal toadies they are.

My son in law went to Iraq/afgan 3 times. I don't want him to go to UA but it would be the first job he went on with an actual honest purpose.

[Newfie]

China makes a point of presenting a helpful presence. .

Not following you on that one. Please elaborate.

Just relating what I have seen personally.

China maintains a presence in the Caribbean. They are helping poorer countries with infrastructure projects. Building roads and housing and agricultural projects. So they are presenting a helpful presence.

We attacked Grenada to push out Cuban influence. Nis the Chinese are building housing projects.

Dominica was truly devastated by a hurricane. The roads and bridges connecting the West coast towns had been provided by the Chinese. Now thry are back reconstructing those projects. There was no sign of USA government aide. Various religious organizations had contributed, but not the government.
.
When Covid hit the Cubans set up a complete small hospital with 8 beds and a 4 person ICU complete with medical staff. The Chinese hospital, much bigger, was still in construction.

The one sign of USA involvement I have seen are some small patrol boats provided for drug interdiction.

I don’t know who our press agent is but he sucks.

[vtsnowedin]

All that Chinese activity is part of their "Road and Belt" program which is in China's interest not the host countries or the western world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative

[Newfie]

What I am describing well predates the Road and Belt and is nowhere on the route. Its the Caribbean.

[vtsnowedin]

What I am describing well predates the Road and Belt and is nowhere on the route. Its the Caribbean.

The road is in Asia, the Belt is world wide and includes Africa, South America and the Caribbean.
They are the serpent offering the apple to eve.

[jedrider]

China makes a point of presenting a helpful presence. .

Not following you on that one. Please elaborate.

Don't need to look any further than home:

China builds railroads and the U.S. neglects it's own infrastructure.

[vtsnowedin]

China makes a point of presenting a helpful presence. .

Not following you on that one. Please elaborate.

Don't need to look any further than home:

China builds railroads and the U.S. neglects it's own infrastructure.

Well we just passed a pretty big infrastructure bill with a lot of rail included.
But China is not making these investments to help the local populations of the countries involved. They are doing it to obtain a strangle hold on world commerce and trade a few years or a decade or two in the future. The people and countries receiving the "aid" should take a very hard look at the fine print and know what strings are being attached to them to make them Chinese puppets.
A very cynical view, I know, but show me where that has not been the case?

[Newfie]

Interesting billionaire perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/s ... t-rushkoff

[C8]

The Chinese have far more people than good arable land- they need belt and road debt deals to guarantee food imports and are very vulnerable. The US is still the best place to be in the food/energy/population equation and that gives us many advantages over China.

[Newfie]

C8,

Yes, a good analysis. But I admit I have no clue what Xi is thinking.

By logic India should he China’s biggest worry and visa versa.

China has poor food resources and an aging population. India has a similar but younger and growing population, except they lack social cohesion, ability to fight? I keel thinking China and Pakistan could gang up on India. Pakistan is 4th most populace country. Xi seems to be working to shape China population with greater social cohesion.

So why is he messing with Taiwan?

[vtsnowedin]

I suspect Xi dreams of a three day "Special operation" just like Putin did in Ukraine and would use that if successful to intimidate all the other countries in the region into compliance.
I do think that reguardless of the leaders in place China and India will come to blows at some point over the rice production areas of Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam.