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the Doomer outlook

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the Doomer outlook

Unread postby sparky » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 02:31:20

.
A few of the fellow posters subscribe to the doomer outlook
they have very good reasons to do so ,
modern society has always been an exercise in countering destructive forces
none less powerful than people themselves

today the societies and their mega cities are astoundingly complex and integrated
this lead them to believe
1 .....that they are brittle , a single sudden shock can see them collapsing like a house of cards
2......that they are not sustainable , their growing needs exceed their foreseeable resources

nothing much wrong with that , but I could suggest some comment

1.....a healthy society with a modicum of civil spirit is in fact very resilient ,
there were wars , disasters and crisis which were surmounted after a time
2.....adjusting to poverty is usually very disruptive, plenty of historical evidence point to the fact
but again a good management of the situation based on some drastic law and order and everybody best interest tend to favor stability

so the term "crash" find itself opposed to the term "decline" the later could easily led to the former
but there is no inevitability it would do so and a lot of interests in preventing it by any means

the critical factor is if the society has good internal cohesion ,
if it does ...it's bullet proof
if it doesn't ...it's a zombie walking to a cliff
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 04:27:11

“Good internal cohesion” seems to be the operative words in your message.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby sparky » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 07:03:58

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Indeed , if a society is at war with itself each stress add and each solution is fought over and rejected
it's one of the dark side of democracy than assembly a majority made of minorities to impose some policies is seen as an achievement
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 12:18:21

For what I observe, there are many directed policies to destroy any remaining cohesion.
Actually everything known as progressivism is to some degree destroying this "cohesion".
So for example multiculturalism is tribalizing neighbourhoods and causing growth of envy/distrust/hatred between different ethnic groups forced to live together.
Feminism is causing hatred towards women, who at some point will simply be ditched.
LGBT excesses are causing hatred towards sexual minorities tamed by law enforcement for time being but for sure pressure is growing.
Finally increasingly authoritarian rule is causing distrust and hate towards State and its institutions.
Collapse will not be peaceful and gradual (aka decline) for long.
Once state resources are limited to a point that police apparatus have lost ability to solve different crimes faster than new crimes are committed, we can expect accelerating avalanche of criminality to take hold.
So Blacks, Whites & Latinos will start murdering each other secure in the knowledge that overstretched police cannot respond fast enough, women will become to be a "rapegame", religious groups and sexual minorities will struggle in mortal combat etc.
So there will be crush of progressive society, rather than a mere decline.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 16:06:44

Sparky you make a good point. Re internal cohesion, looking at human history since there have been good records (let's say since about the Renaissance, but that would apply further back), implies that unexpected events and stresses on the system mean that, big picture, such cohesion doesn't last. Society changes and adapts when it is forced to, and such changes are a result of stress on the system.

And by definition, IMO, when those stresses cause big changes in how populations align and live and work, there can't BE a lot of cohesion -- at least while the stresses are being resolved.

So I think that stresses, some lack of cohesion, and lots of change over time are inevitable. The question is, does the complexity make things brittle enough to preclude the necessary transitions from taking place without "doom"?

So then you get into the definition of doom. NO DOUBT, billions will die now and again during the rough spots from wars, disease, man made crises, etc. But OTOH, EVERYBODY dies in about, say 80 years or so on average (or gets to a state where they can't do a lot of useful work).

The whole thing is a big unstable cauldron. And has been since at least the Renaissance (from where I got a decent amount of overall world history education vs. dribs and drabs).

I think in some ways, the technology will make us MORE resiliant. Look how much of the fast crash doomer scenario is on the electric grid coming down for months or years. Once solar is a cheap, effective alternative or even replacement of having to be on "the grid", and/or you have a huge number of residential solar installations feeding any excess power INTO the grid, and capable backup batteries are common or even the norm -- the idea of the grid shutting down for while being "DOOM" simply goes away. (NOT saying it wouldn't be very inconvenient, just not doom).

Of course, OTOH, unless electronics get hardened or commonly protected with Faraday cages, etc., maybe an EMP pulse replaces the grid as THE obvious huge weak point, for example.

I just think that realistically, things are FAR too complex and change FAR too much to try to make any meaningful forecasts of short to intermediate term doom probability. Which of course, might be a real bad sign, as TPTB trying to apply for effective handling of a large disaster results in plans which are pretty much a joke (same as it's been throughout the nuclear era, considering city evacuation plans, for example). OTOH, more millions will die which sounds really bad, but there's more billions around to take over once the mess is resolved. And yes, I think that by far, most of the crises are relatively local vs. global in scale.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 16:38:13

On a short drive yesterday I passed several houses with solar panels mounted on roof tops or tracking poles with a 5kw system being the average (24 -200 watt panels) plus a solar "farm" I had not seen before that covered more then an acre of land. Considering that an Acre of solar panels can supply the needs of 250 homes the penetration of solar into the electric market is growing by leaps and bounds. I can count five of these acre or more farms within ten miles of my home and seeing new roof panels is now so common it is not even noteworthy. These have been erected in the last five years or so the trend is accelerating.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby sparky » Sun 01 Dec 2019, 18:07:03

.
an intuitive insight is that the more sophisticated and specialised a society is , the more brittle it is .
simple agrarian communities are about shock proof to anything bar a big comet
a mega-city of twenty millions is just an accident waiting to happen
anything would do
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 01 Dec 2019, 20:48:06

sparky wrote:.
an intuitive insight is that the more sophisticated and specialised a society is , the more brittle it is .
simple agrarian communities are about shock proof to anything bar a big comet
a mega-city of twenty millions is just an accident waiting to happen
anything would do

While that sounds logical, complicated or sophisticated cultures have throughout history supported much larger and denser populations then the simpler cultures surrounding them. The accidents that bring down more advanced cultures are few and far between and many times are the result of a resource being over utilized to the point of collapse.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby sparky » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 07:33:25

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sophisticated societies certainly support large populations
but it's mostly because they draw from a large hinterland , either by conquest ( most empire capitals )
or by trade ......Phoenicia , Florence , Venice , Amsterdam , London
I cannot think of one which survived unless it was in isolation , like Japan or to a large extend China
the cause of their demise is usually institutional sclerosis succumbing to a variety of political and environment stresses
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 00:40:32

sparky wrote:.
sophisticated societies certainly support large populations
but it's mostly because they draw from a large hinterland , either by conquest ( most empire capitals )
or by trade ......Phoenicia , Florence , Venice , Amsterdam , London
I cannot think of one which survived unless it was in isolation , like Japan or to a large extend China
the cause of their demise is usually institutional sclerosis succumbing to a variety of political and environment stresses



How do you define survive? China was conquered many times over its very long history including the fall of the Ming dynasty in the 17th century, the Mongol conquest in the 13th century just off the top of my head. The Chinese culture of 2020 is to say the least different than the culture of the Chi'in empire the nation gets its name from. So what do you mean by society surviving?
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 09:14:12

The “Reset” is about control by elites through their technocrats, bureaucrats, and lobbyist. The lobbyists are the corporate class so this is fascist. The technocrats and bureaucrats are the Marxist influence. They are targeting people of faith but not only. This is also about rights and freedoms so even if you are free thinking atheist you are a target. This is a stealth tyranny against the many who are individuals by the few who are the select. The virus is a tool. Global warming and ecological decline are a tool. The reality behind these issues don’t matter it is the “not letting a crisis go to waste” policy they are employing. The radical left is being harnessed like brown shirts to this end. Economic strangulation is a policy so people are forced into servitude while the largest corporations prosper.

There is a core element of the power principal at work here not wealth. Wealth confiscation is easy to see but power confiscation much harder mainly because of the many disguises power confiscation can take the form of. Science is a key area of this corruption. Wealth redistribution will buy these malign actors converts. There will seem to be ethical principles behind these efforts but again this is a disguise. It does not matter these actions destroy wealth because wealth is not the goal but instead power and this is why this civilizational phase will be so destructive. This is a stealth civil war and why it is so hideous. Civil wars are about power not wealth.

This confiscation is easy once critical mass of power appropriation is achieved. You will be amazed how swift change will be once Trump is removed. Trump is a key block to this process. Like him or not he is antithesis to their design. This fraudulent election was amazing but this is small beer compared to what is coming. Keep in mind this is deeper than a group it is also systematic and self-organizing. If you want to look at this process in a binary way then it is about Good vs Evil. If you look at it objectively and scientifically then you see the process also as a systematic bifurcation. Divide and conquer is the method to this madness. We are now in the late stages of a vicious “circle of a mechanization”. I leave you with a great quote from C.S Lews in “Screwtape Letter”.

“I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of “Admin”. The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid “dens of crime” that Dickens love to paint. It I not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final results. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice.”
And
“Someone or something beyond conscious control must overthrow the Devil at the right moment, for, being an archangel he can read thoughts and is always aware of the intention that precedes the act. He can be defeated only by an act without prior intent. “let not your left hand know what your right hand doeth.” Now in Christian terminology this “someone or something beyond conscious control” is called the grace of God, and grace is held to be the only means of overcoming the machinations of the Devil, that is, of the vicious circle into which self-consciousness can lead us.”
“The Screwtape Letters” C. S. Lewis

“Governed by Demonic Spirit or Divine Intelligence – Catherine Austin Fitts”
https://usawatchdog.com/governed-by-dem ... tin-fitts/

“The number one goal of reset architects is destroying Jesus and all of his Christian believers…What do our founding documents say? They say our freedom comes to us from divine authority. Right? So, to destroy that system, you have to destroy those things. When you look at the Covid 19 lockdowns, the number one target has been the churches. They have been trying to bankrupt and destroy the churches. . . It is clear that there is a war on the churches… “The question is: are we going to be hyper-materialistic governed by a demonic spirit? Or, are we going to be sovereign individuals governed by a divine intelligence? Those are the two visions.” Fitts says the reset is also about trying to get rid of President Trump and his supporters. Fitts explains, “If you look at the Covid 19 restrictions, they were clearly aimed at wiping out the businesses of millions of Trump supporters. I would describe that as covert operations coming into the elections. It’s really a war on populism because the goal of the leadership is not just to put Biden in, but to clamp down on anybody with independent revenues and independent stature who is supporting real populist policies. So, we are in the middle of the war on populism… the reset is also “the end of currencies.” She goes on to say, “It’s the death of currencies. Currency is something that is liquid. Currency is something I can put in my pocket and walk away. This is a digital control system. This is a credit at the company store. You will be given a credit at the company store, and if you do what you are told, you can buy things at the company store, but you can’t start your own store. That’s what we are watching right now in the U.S. economy. This is how it works. The insiders and their businesses are deemed essential and can stay open. Then they can do a series of things to shut down all the independent people and herd all those cash flows into theirs. So, you can’t go to church and you can’t sing, but you can stream Netflix. You can go to Costco. You can go to Walmart. . . . If the Fed and New York money center banks can make money from it, it’s essential, and you can do it. They can borrow from the Fed at 0%, and our credit cards cost 16%. This is how this works. So, this is economic warfare, and it’s designed to destroy the independent producer.”
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Pops » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 09:52:11

Not sure what makes a Doomer see things always on the cusp. To me that is the critical balance, understanding life as we know it can change in a heartbeat while not spending my life looking for dead people.

Shit Happens is a good outlook because normalcy bias is the default human setting. If we had to decide, for example, whether or not cross traffic were going to stop for their red traffic light, we'd never get anywhere. And if cross traffic didn't believe that red light was real? If it were told in fact that red means go faster?

I realize we didn't evolve our conscious to deal with traffic lights, but you get the point, because we only have so much bandwidth, we take the expected totally for granted and ignore or even actively put up a mental block against the low odds, uncomfortable thing. Keeping an eye open to potential danger, especially after a lifetime of little to no danger is really hard. Weather warnings, unusual knocking noise in the boiler, layoff rumors, spouse "working late", POTUS discussing martial law to overthrow an election, etc go by unnoticed because they happen all the time and always come to nothing (well most of them happen all the time): right up to the time they "surprisingly" come to something.

But it looks like the thread isn't about Doomers so much as it is about Doom. Right now we should be celebrating our new digital tools, clean tech, easy lives but instead we are suffering the Boomers Reactionary Revolt. Baby Boomers were the most educated generation ever, as such they were far more liberal than their parents and able to sway opinion and policy. Educated, liberal people are generally more supportive of civil rights than conservatives. Not to say they are less biased, just that they pass more, well, liberal laws. There used to be lots of laws about adults' sex lives, about immigration, about voting restrictions, drugs/alcohol, being non-white; and lots fewer laws about abusing the commons, abusing the poor, the worker, the minority— and the non-minority—women.

But Boomers are also the Me Generation, so now we have the reaction to all that liberalness as the white, uneducated majority around the world finally reassert their grievance at no longer being the advantaged group. It is shocking/not surprising to read EU say that progressives multiculturalism is tribalizing neighborhoods and the women will soon "be ditched" —whatever that means. (maybe PO needs an incel subforum, LOL) White people are pissed that black people can move in next door, that women are bosses, that homosexuals are out and no longer punchlines. And pissed that they are called deplorable for being pissed. Simple as that.

The largest Doom Dot I see is the rift in people's perception of reality. trump and his media convinced 77% of Republicans that Biden fraudulently stole the election—with zero evidence admissible or persuasive in court. (Because uneducated people don't answer the phone, the real number is likely 99%.) What this means is they have gone over into a fantasy land totally untethered to the real world. I've been around religious people my whole life and they will stare at you clear eyed and talk about the factuality of bible miracles- and their miraculous morning toast, about "god's will", the afterlife, angels—not in metaphors or morality plays or Hallmark scenes— but as reality. The voting machines are controlled by dead Venezuelan Hugo Chavez, Russia didn't hack the US, China did, "There could also have been a hit on our ridiculous voting machines during the election"—The POTUS, "almost everyone — 85% — who got the coronavirus in July was wearing a mask"—Carlson,

The red light means "go"

.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 10:25:41

Pops wrote:Not sure what makes a Doomer see things always on the cusp. To me that is the critical balance, understanding life as we know it can change in a heartbeat while not spending my life looking for dead people.

Shit Happens is a good outlook because normalcy bias is the default human setting. If we had to decide, for example, whether or not cross traffic were going to stop for their red traffic light, we'd never get anywhere. And if cross traffic didn't believe that red light was real? If it were told in fact that red means go faster?

I realize we didn't evolve our conscious to deal with traffic lights, but you get the point, because we only have so much bandwidth, we take the expected totally for granted and ignore or even actively put up a mental block against the low odds, uncomfortable thing. Keeping an eye open to potential danger, especially after a lifetime of little to no danger is really hard. Weather warnings, unusual knocking noise in the boiler, layoff rumors, spouse "working late", POTUS discussing martial law to overthrow an election, etc go by unnoticed because they happen all the time and always come to nothing (well most of them happen all the time): right up to the time they "surprisingly" come to something.

But it looks like the thread isn't about Doomers so much as it is about Doom. Right now we should be celebrating our new digital tools, clean tech, easy lives but instead we are suffering the Boomers Reactionary Revolt. Baby Boomers were the most educated generation ever, as such they were far more liberal than their parents and able to sway opinion and policy. Educated, liberal people are generally more supportive of civil rights than conservatives. Not to say they are less biased, just that they pass more, well, liberal laws. There used to be lots of laws about adults' sex lives, about immigration, about voting restrictions, drugs/alcohol, being non-white; and lots fewer laws about abusing the commons, abusing the poor, the worker, the minority— and the non-minority—women.

But Boomers are also the Me Generation, so now we have the reaction to all that liberalness as the white, uneducated majority around the world finally reassert their grievance at no longer being the advantaged group. It is shocking/not surprising to read EU say that progressives multiculturalism is tribalizing neighborhoods and the women will soon "be ditched" —whatever that means. (maybe PO needs an incel subforum, LOL) White people are pissed that black people can move in next door, that women are bosses, that homosexuals are out and no longer punchlines. And pissed that they are called deplorable for being pissed. Simple as that.


Funny I am not pissed about any of your three examples. What I am pissed off about is being blanket accused of being pissed off about those examples and any defense I raise to the charge being summarily dismissed.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Pops » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 10:41:56

Tanada wrote:Funny I am not pissed about any of your three examples. What I am pissed off about is being blanket accused of being pissed off about those examples and any defense I raise to the charge being summarily dismissed.

Why would you be pissed if you aren't a part of that group?

I'm in the same demo as you and I'm not pissed.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 11:38:06

Pops wrote:
Tanada wrote:Funny I am not pissed about any of your three examples. What I am pissed off about is being blanket accused of being pissed off about those examples and any defense I raise to the charge being summarily dismissed.

Why would you be pissed if you aren't a part of that group?

I'm in the same demo as you and I'm not pissed.


The typical response is to point fingers and label. The point of evidence of election fraud requiring admissionability in politicized courts is a laugh. The 4 years of one Trump attempted "coupgate" (all disproven) after another is so blatantly clear to the honest. The presentation of a corpse of a leader completely corrupt and senile is amazing. Yet, my position is this is a process and it is beyond any conscious control so calling it conspiracy is mute. Getting upset about it is of no use. I would just as soon see Trump go but this Biden facade is a lie so he should go too. This is anyway the trajectory civilizations follow. The current global digital civilization is responding uniquely and in our case we have the "the great reset" crowd. In Rome we saw that response. It is the nature of human decline. I saw a very interesting article in live science about the evolution and demise of civilizations. This article in a way can be fitted to our little earth universe.

“The Milky Way is probably full of dead civilizations”
https://www.livescience.com/milky-way-a ... e-map.html

“Most of the alien civilizations that ever dotted our galaxy have probably killed themselves off already. That's the takeaway of a new study, published Dec. 14 to the arXiv database, which used modern astronomy and statistical modeling to map the emergence and death of intelligent life in time and space across the Milky Way. Their results amount to a more precise 2020 update of a famous equation that Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence founder Frank Drake wrote in 1961. The Drake equation, popularized by physicist Carl Sagan in his "Cosmos" miniseries, relied on a number of mystery variables — like the prevalence of planets in the universe, then an open question. This new paper, authored by three Caltech physicists and one high school student, is much more practical. It says where and when life is most likely to occur in the Milky Way, and identifies the most important factor affecting its prevalence: intelligent creatures' tendency toward self-annihilation. The authors looked at a range of factors presumed to influence the development of intelligent life, such as the prevalence of sunlike stars harboring Earth-like planets; the frequency of deadly, radiation-blasting supernovas; the probability of and time necessary for intelligent life to evolve if conditions are right; and the possible tendency of advanced civilizations to destroy themselves. Modeling the evolution of the Milky Way over time with those factors in mind, they found that the probability of life emerging based on known factors peaked about 13,000 light-years from the galactic center and 8 billion years after the galaxy formed. Earth, by comparison, is about 25,000 light-years from the galactic center, and human civilization arose on the planet's surface about 13.5 billion years after the Milky Way formed (though simple life emerged soon after the planet formed.) In other words, we're likely a frontier civilization in terms of galactic geography and relative latecomers to the self-aware Milky Way inhabitant scene. But, assuming life does arise reasonably often and eventually becomes intelligent, there are probably other civilizations out there — mostly clustered around that 13,000-light-year band, mostly due to the prevalence of sunlike stars there. A figure from the paper plots the age of the Milky Way in billions of years (y axis) against distance from the galactic center (x axis), finding a hotspot for civilization 8 billion years after the galaxy formed and 13,000 light years from the galactic center. A figure from the paper plots the age of the Milky Way in billions of years (y axis) against distance from the galactic center (x axis), finding a hotspot for civilization 8 billion years after the galaxy formed and 13,000 light years from the galactic center. (Image credit: Cai et al.) Most of these other civilizations that still exist in the galaxy today are likely young, due to the probability that intelligent life is fairly likely to eradicate itself over long timescales. Even if the galaxy reached its civilizational peak more than 5 billion years ago, most of the civilizations that were around then have likely self-annihilated, the researchers found . This last bit is the most uncertain variable in the paper; how often do civilizations kill themselves? But it's also the most important in determining how widespread civilization is, the researchers found. Even an extraordinarily low chance of a given civilization wiping itself out in any given century — say, via nuclear holocaust or runaway climate change — would mean that the overwhelming majority of peak Milky Way civilizations are already gone.”
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby ralfy » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 11:39:33

"Realistic" sounds better.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 11:39:42

Pops wrote:
Tanada wrote:Funny I am not pissed about any of your three examples. What I am pissed off about is being blanket accused of being pissed off about those examples and any defense I raise to the charge being summarily dismissed.

Why would you be pissed if you aren't a part of that group?

I'm in the same demo as you and I'm not pissed.


Oh that's an easy one. I am a Christian right of center person and when I express conservative views on any subject I get labeled with the above accusations and many more as a reflex response. Not being of those viewpoints is irrelevant because the people who assume I hold them discount everything else I say using my purported illeberal positions on those issues as the basis for ignoring everything else I espouse.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 11:48:33

Tanada wrote:
Pops wrote:
Tanada wrote:Funny I am not pissed about any of your three examples. What I am pissed off about is being blanket accused of being pissed off about those examples and any defense I raise to the charge being summarily dismissed.

Why would you be pissed if you aren't a part of that group?

I'm in the same demo as you and I'm not pissed.


Oh that's an easy one. I am a Christian right of center person and when I express conservative views on any subject I get labeled with the above accusations and many more as a reflex response. Not being of those viewpoints is irrelevant because the people who assume I hold them discount everything else I say using my purported illeberal positions on those issues as the basis for ignoring everything else I espouse.


Tanada, may I ask how you view the Lincoln Group of disaffected Republicans whose conservative principals they claim are being undermined by Trumps populism.

Do you find yourself resonating with their claim or are you more drawn to Trumps populism in your conservative world view?

I want to also let you know that it should be ok to take the moderator hat off occasionally to be more candid about your personal views.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 12:15:37

Ibon wrote:
Tanada wrote:
Pops wrote:
Tanada wrote:Funny I am not pissed about any of your three examples. What I am pissed off about is being blanket accused of being pissed off about those examples and any defense I raise to the charge being summarily dismissed.

Why would you be pissed if you aren't a part of that group?

I'm in the same demo as you and I'm not pissed.


Oh that's an easy one. I am a Christian right of center person and when I express conservative views on any subject I get labeled with the above accusations and many more as a reflex response. Not being of those viewpoints is irrelevant because the people who assume I hold them discount everything else I say using my purported illeberal positions on those issues as the basis for ignoring everything else I espouse.


Tanada, may I ask how you view the Lincoln Group of disaffected Republicans whose conservative principals they claim are being undermined by Trumps populism.

Do you find yourself resonating with their claim or are you more drawn to Trumps populism in your conservative world view?

I want to also let you know that it should be ok to take the moderator hat off occasionally to be more candid about your personal views.


Well as I am not a Republican I don't pay much attention to what any political group says they believe in, I look at what they do. I had to look up the "Lincoln Group" but as soon as I did I knew they are not representing my version of conservative views. They are a pro business globalist group and they love my thankfully ex governor John Kasich who I consider the worst sort of political ass.

I don't care for Trump as a person, I don't think he is a great representative of the best America has to offer. However compared to the alternative of another decade of economic malaise in Ohio where I live I see him as by far preferable to the alternatives offered by the D pro-globalist-business party.

You need to understand that the economy of Ohio and the surrounding states was moribund from 2006-2016. However very early in 2017 things took off here in a big way. Construction went up both commercial and residential. Jobs were suddenly recruiting workers erasing the "permanent" unemployment we had been told to accept. Until Covid shut downs things here were booming in ways we had not seen since 1990. Industrial plants that were running one shift part time were suddenly running a shift full time and in some instance putting on a second shift. Every state bordering Ohio had the same thing happen from western Pennsylvania, Kentucky, West Virginia, Indiana and Michigan and beyond. This is the part of the nation where manufacturing was/is the bread and butter for the working class and for about 30 years we have been sneeringly referred to as the "rust belt" by the mainstream media because our industrial plant was being shipped off to China and we were told to accept the future as low paid service workers if we could not afford a Masters degree level education in some field most folks here have no aptitude for or they would already be following that career path.

I was born in Toledo and grew up in an integrated school system. My first house was bought in a mixed neighborhood with African Americans two houses down the street and occupying the home on the other side of the alley behind my house. I have had male and female bosses and they were equally incompetent in some skills and gifted in others. My best friends at University were a Lesbian couple who I hung out with on weekends. But when I express a conservative viewpoint on globalism, the anti-science stances of the D party on certain topics, or a belief in national borders being a key to economic security none of my background or the way I treat other human beings matters because it is assumed I am a deplorable-racist-sexist-homophobic-mysoginist.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: the Doomer outlook

Unread postby mousepad » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 12:52:27

Tanada wrote:But when I express a conservative viewpoint on globalism, the anti-science stances of the D party on certain topics, or a belief in national borders being a key to economic security none of my background or the way I treat other human beings matters because it is assumed I am a deplorable-racist-sexist-homophobic-mysoginist.


BRAVO !!!! That's exactly the way I feel.
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