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Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Fri 24 May 2019, 14:20:07

Chinese independent refineries are losing USD 8 on each barrel of crude.

When crude prices rose, gasoline prices didn't rise equally as the Chinese economy is slowing down as the EROEI is deteriorating.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby EdwinSm » Sat 25 May 2019, 00:40:30

"Tea Pot" makes it sound small, but the article had them refining about 1/3rd of China's output. I wonder how the State owned 2/3rds are doing. By denying the smaller refiners export licenses it does seem that the government is pushing things back into the State owned sphere.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 25 May 2019, 11:14:30

When crude prices rose, gasoline prices didn't rise equally as the Chinese economy is slowing down as the EROEI is deteriorating.


The world's petroleum producers have been pumping the planet intensively for 159 years. They have always taken the best of what could be found; what's left is getting pretty crappy. We have now extracted about 40% of all the liquid hydrocarbons on the planet. The other 60% will cost more than they are worth because they have to be squeezed out of solid rock. It has gotten so bad that hardly anyone is even looking for the stuff anymore. With no new oil coning on line to keep the ERoEI of the average field up, it is starting to fall off a Seneca cliff.

We can only wonder how well the Chinese refiners will do at -$12.00? ERoEI is like a bad penny; - it always keeps coming back!

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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 25 May 2019, 12:13:43

The other 60% will cost more than they are worth because they have to be squeezed out of solid rock.


Please give us an example where oil has not come from a reservoir that is in fact "solid rock". All reservoirs are lithified with the exception of the exposed part of the oil sands where sandstone is unconsolidated. The Jurassic Arab D carbonates that produce in Saudi Arabia? Solid Rock. The Cretaceous Burgan sandstone that is the largest conventional clastic reservoir in the world? Solid Rock. Indeed unconventional reservoirs in shaley formation actually have higher porosity than the vast majority of conventional reservoirs, it is the permeability that is lower that is somewhat independent of the consolidated nature of the reservoir.

It has gotten so bad that hardly anyone is even looking for the stuff anymore.


With the exception of about 100 oil and gas companies investigating unconventional reservoirs in the US, all of the majors who are still busy drilling exploration wells around the world etc, etc. :roll:

With no new oil coning on line to keep the ERoEI of the average field up, it is starting to fall off a Seneca cliff.


So I guess this is about the fifth time you have to be instructed that according to the E&Y annual review of oil and gas reserves in the US that the top 50 companies have more than replaced their production year on year (about 150% annually over of 5 year period)....that is all new production. And the BP annual Energy study illustrates that the reserve life index of most countries in the world has not decreased over the past number of years, meaning produced reserves are being replaced there as well. Not sure why you think it is good practice to ignore data, especially when it tells the world you are full of crap. :roll:
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 27 May 2019, 10:08:36

shortonoil wrote:The world's petroleum producers have been pumping the planet intensively for 159 years. They have always taken the best of what could be found; what's left is getting pretty crappy. We have now extracted about 40% of all the liquid hydrocarbons on the planet.


We have not. You obviously aren't even aware of the cumulative production or cumulative production plus reserves information matched to in-place estimates for the globe.

Not that you would know how to use it, but you need to get the best information available before you say something contradicted by the data. You do know what data is, don't you? First you get the best data, THEN you do your cherry picking and excluding what you want routine.

Do you have access to ANY of the information necessary to tackle this problem, or did you really just make up crap like this throughout?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 27 May 2019, 11:52:43

The so-called Super-High EROEI WindMill funded by the Windmill Bank, Deutsche Bank, is bankrupt. Its gone from 107 Euros in June 2007 to 6.45 as of today.

Windmills are useless.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Mon 27 May 2019, 12:02:08

Always get a kick out of when Mr. Short or someone else with comparable ignorance spouts some ridiculous stuff.
Spurs me, time permitting, to do some reading up on current developments in the hydrocarbon world.

Easy peasy activity for anyone truly interested in this stuff.

Anywhoo, the buzz surrounding pre salt formations may well prove to be valid.
Terminology now seems to categorize Jurassic reservoirs as the 'next frontier' and that frontier is being exploited right this moment in Da Guf.

Chevron's Anchor project has yet to be greenlighted, but if the 20,000 psi formation proves productive, hold onto your hats.

Along with Shell's Appomattox operation, an entirely new resource - deep, high pressure hydrocarbon reservoirs - may boost production worldwide.

Peak what?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 27 May 2019, 14:37:20

StarvingLion wrote:The so-called Super-High EROEI WindMill funded by the Windmill Bank, Deutsche Bank, is bankrupt. Its gone from 107 Euros in June 2007 to 6.45 as of today.

Windmills are useless.


Sort of like your prior claim that money is useless? Except when you use it for something and it works? Or, in the case of windmills, they provide some 15% of the local grid electricity?

You seem to have really weird ideas about all the useful things that you claim are useless SL.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby eclipse » Wed 29 May 2019, 22:52:59

While we're talking about EROEI, how often have you heard of ESOEI? That's EROEI but also counting the energy cost of the energy storage for a renewable grid. It ain't pretty, which is another reason why I'm a fan of nuclear power.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/c ... y-storage/
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Thu 30 May 2019, 04:27:42

Chinese diesel demand fell 14 percent in March and 19 percent in April.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/28/falling ... cture.html
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 30 May 2019, 07:55:02

Yoshua wrote:Chinese diesel demand fell 14 percent in March and 19 percent in April.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/28/falling ... cture.html


They have a growth problem they aren't willing to talk about officially.

Good thing it has nothing to do with EROEI either!
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Thu 30 May 2019, 11:15:31

Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 30 May 2019, 12:16:12

Yoshua wrote:Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true


Falling EROEI has nothing to do with Venezuela's problems, as even dumbass reporters know. The idea that I need to mention that peak oilers are now intellectually farther down the food chain than that is...mortifying. Remember the days when Happy McPeaksters at least tried to think...even a little...before pretending they could blame some countries ills on nonsense.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Thu 30 May 2019, 15:24:14

The resource curse is behind the ill's of Venezuela? How to end this curse? Call in the exorcist?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 31 May 2019, 13:40:27

Yoshua wrote:The resource curse is behind the ill's of Venezuela? How to end this curse? Call in the exorcist?


Better yet, make up nonsense, blog it maybe, and call yourself an expert and because you wrote it down, it must be true! Sort of like Short and his swill, right Yosh?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby eclipse » Fri 31 May 2019, 18:46:41

It's not a resource curse it's the curse of the dictator. A landmass can have roughly equitable climate and weather and geography and resources, and yet the different rules imposed from different national governments at the top have radically different economic and social outcomes. Want photographic proof? North Korea and South Korea. What to do about the 'resource curse'? Invade? Have a revolution? Because it turns out to be political after all.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 11:17:14

The resource curse is behind the ill's of Venezuela? How to end this curse? Call in the exorcist?


The curse started when oil fell from $98/ barrel to $28. The fact that Venezuela has been run by a herd of ex taxi cab driving psychopaths didn't help, nor the fact that their oil is mostly road tar quality. The end of the oil age is coming, and the weaker hands will fall out first. Of course being a completely dysfunctional society from day one didn't add to Venezuela's chances of ever using their resources for the benefit of its population.

Better yet, make up nonsense, blog it maybe, and call yourself an expert and because you wrote it down, it must be true! Sort of like Short and his swill, right Yosh?


It sounds like the hogs are swilling up their diner early. You should write everything you know about oil on the back of a postage stamp, and mail it to yourself. You would double your knowledge of the subject.

We will now return to our regularly scheduled program of serial spammers.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 12:11:16

Yoshua wrote:Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true


Jesus is weeping again. How many times do we have to adjudicate the real reason for Venezuela hitting the skids? It has more to do with ideology than geology.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 14:40:54

asg70 wrote:
Yoshua wrote:Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true


Jesus is weeping again. How many times do we have to adjudicate the real reason for Venezuela hitting the skids? It has more to do with ideology than geology.

Yeah as in they believed they had the right to keep all or at least most of the profit from their oil. The US GOV and oil corporations begged to differ
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 16:31:17

Yeah as in they believed they had the right to keep all or at least most of the profit from their oil. The US GOV and oil corporations begged to differ


OK. Apparently you have no idea how oil and gas contracts work. First of all the US Gov does not hold nor did they hold any oil and gas licenses in Venezuela. The only benefit the US Gov would see from oil and gas activities in Venezuela is through income taxes (US tax - Venezuela tax) of companies like EOM who were working there or from refineries which bought oil from Venezuela. The companies themselves fronted all the cash to cover expenditures. Oil firms had to pay a 50% corporate tax, 30% royalty and a 3.33% extraction tax. They also were subject to a windfalls profit tax when Brent exceeded $70/bbl, land rental and a 2% annual contribution to science and education. When it was all said and done the Venezuela government take was 91% leaving 9% for the companies.

So your view that somehow the US Govt and oil corporations were keeping most of the oil profits is basically nonsense.
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