Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The coming Civil War

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

The coming Civil War

Unread postby Cog » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 06:28:19

I'm not doomerish about the normal doom discussed here such as climate, peakoil, or even economic doom in the short term. But I am doomerish about what I see as a possible violent revolution and counter-revolution in the USA in the next 5-10 years. Matt Bracken writes fiction but he wrote an interesting article discussing that possibility. The article is long but worth a read. A short snippet

https://www.americanpartisan.org/2019/0 ... l-war-two/

The Covington confrontation points to an ironclad historical pattern. Every previous genocide in modern times was preceded by a similar pattern of public demonization of state-designated scapegoats. But is correlation causation? Does the American Left intend to eventually commit genocide against white heritage American males? In my opinion, yes.

Scapegoating is part of a clear pattern of conduct seen during every socialist power grab from the French Revolution until now. In the case of German national socialists, European Jews were the scapegoats of the Nazis during their climb to power. In the case of international socialists, AKA Communists, class enemies were usually but not always the designated scapegoats. Examples of class enemies would include the Kulaks in the Soviet Union, “landlords” in China, and “intellectuals” in Cambodia. But in other cases ethnic groups were targeted as scapegoats by Communists, to include the Ukrainians, Crimeans, Latvians and others.

Today in the United States, a possible future genocide remains far down the track and around the curve, well out of sight, and beyond the power of most Americans to even imagine. But the historical record is clear. Broad social approval of class- or racially-based scapegoating is a necessary precursor stage to eventual genocide, and a combination of both variants was clearly seen in the Covington case.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12710
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 06:48:49

Try reading Michners “The Cobenant” followed by “Carribean”. Fictional stories rooted in actual history. It will help find out your understanding.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13084
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Cog » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 06:50:27

Newfie wrote:Try reading Michners Carribean.


How about we stay on this topic?
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12710
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 06:58:33

It’s extreamly on topic. Next to you, or perhaps even ahead of you, on this board I’m the one who has been most concerned about civil conflict. I think it highly likely but through different/additional mechanisms.

Michner spends a lot of effort to explor the historical basis for such conflicts in a variety of settings.

Things never unfold the way we predict, best to have a wide understanding.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13084
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 07:10:44

Newfie wrote:It’s extreamly on topic. Next to you, or perhaps even ahead of you, on this board I’m the one who has been most concerned about civil conflict. I think it highly likely but through different/additional mechanisms.

Michner spends a lot of effort to explor the historical basis for such conflicts in a variety of settings.

Things never unfold the way we predict, best to have a wide understanding.


We host many Americans of many persuasions but of course since we dedicated to eco tourism we do have more liberal progressives then republicans. Having said that the old timer entomologists who come here are split pretty much down the middle on their political positions.

The main point I would add to this discussion is the overwhelming expression of weariness I get from almost all Americans regarding the political divisiveness and how relieved they are to be out of the US. That is one of the reasons I almost never engage in political discussions with Americans who come visit. They are happy to be out of the polarized field.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7470
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Cog » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 07:19:27

Ibon you yourself said the best model for the USA is to have an elite and the rest of us as serfs as a sustainable model. This thread and the link is right in line with that. In every socialist or communist society there is an elite and the worker/serf class. Its my contention and that of the author at the link, is that the purpose of the Democratic party is to be that elite. One party forever.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12710
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 11:11:19

That’s most likely true, for both D’s and R’s. It is fundamental to human nature. It’s just the D’s are more organized and pushing it harder right now. I’m pretty sure they will over reach and shoot themselves in the foot. Just elect AOC to Pelosies position.

My concern about civil unrest, and it’s considerabke, is based more upon local uprisings. Many different ones in different cities. Each group reflecting local differences and problems. Not A civil war but widespread civil conflict.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13084
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 14:21:12

Democrats are like herding wild cats. Without sounding partisan I would think It is the Republicans who are more willing to submit to authoritative religions and authoritative leaders.

A major problem we have that affects both parties is that intelligent individuals with sobriety and the emotional wisdom to lead are the very ones who are steering clear from politics.

It is the pathological personality types, regardless of party affiliation, that are attracted to the political arena.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7470
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 05 Mar 2019, 16:14:12

Ibon,

Until recently I thought that same way. But I’ve had a different thought I’m now considering, it came about when considering Fascism.

One of the hallmarks if fascisim, the one most evidently missing from the Democrat Party in 2016 under Ms. Clinton was “Fanatical Nationalism.” Why if the rest of the definition fit relatively well was this vital life missing.

Except if you consider aligence to the Party as the Nationalisim, then it fits and makes sense. All the bits come together.

In retrospect I think it’s a good thing Clinton didn’t win. I think, Hope, it broke up the power cartel within the D’s. I’m not convienced of this one way or the other. Surely there are new charaismatic rising stars who would love to be tomorrow’s power brokers. Time will tell.

It’s an idea I play with time to time.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13084
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 06:38:38

Newfie wrote:Except if you consider aligence to the Party as the Nationalisim, then it fits and makes sense. All the bits come together.


I see how you are applying nationalist sentiment toward party and that this is where the rigid fixed loyalty can escalate to some quasi civil war..... but I have serious doubts about this... I doubt the typical Americans serious allegiance really to their party. And it has to do with something you yourself have mentioned many times.

Americans allegiance is with CONSUMERISM

This trumps all of the other possible allegiances. There is no real hunger for serious civil war. The current tribalism is a bit like american football.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7470
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 13:25:06

Except that the preponderance of the evidence is toward a demonization of liberals, not of conservatives, or whites, I could accept your hypothesis, Cog. I think you are seeing it exactly the wrong way because of the bias of your perspective. The saving grace for the country, by the way, regarding whether that demonization of liberals will lead to something more than division seems to reside in the arguments of people like William Buckley, who allowed it, except in the case of racism. So, it has become more of an anti-intellectualism that pervades in America, than a true racial bias. The trouble with that form of anti-intellectualism is that it makes for an absence of true constructive criticism on the left. There are only accusations, and nothing to build upon. The thinkers on the left, therefore, exist in an environment that is unbounded on a side, so to speak. Just look at how they are revisiting some of the tenants of socialism, but out of context. Look at how they entertain rights based thinking out of an obligation to respect one's nature rather than one's place in time or relative position brought about by effort. The trouble with both the left and the right, regarding that last issue, is more about refusing to refresh each actor's relative position properly when we think about taking turns in whatever endeavor in society. The actors each introduce their own biases as to who should have an upper hand, over starting based upon some generally acceptable starting point which does reference one's past position, but acknowledges that whatever one's nature they are still on the board, playing the game. We have allowed the greedy to set the rules such that no other players can possibly win when at each turn only those who start very far ahead should ever be assessed as in that position. And even they can be chewed up over any number of successive turns, regardless of how far ahead they once were. The law is rigged, and we struggle against the wrong set of actors when we rail against the consequences. It's our fault because we believe deep down it must be that way. We believe in big companies. We believe in progress. Those beliefs aren't always off base either. It's just that when they are balanced against the little man's position, you have to start fairly each time. We have sabotaged the role of probability in individual success.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 13:28:14

That’s some good thoughts. Just to bounce things around, what percent of Germans had a strong allegiance to the Nazi Party? I don’t know. If I don’t think it was a whole bunch, maybe like 15%. If someone knows please correct.

What happened was they took control and then ousted the opposition. Sofa like the FBI and Justice working for the D’s.

It didn’t happen, so that’s good. Let’s not let ourselves get that close in the future.

As to Consumerisim, it’s across party lines. I don’t see that creating a civil war.

But there does seem to be growing animosity within the country, each entitled group looking for more compensation. Lots of injustice collecting. Working each other up into a frenzy. Lots of small conflicts.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13084
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby dolanbaker » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 14:42:45

Newfie wrote:That’s some good thoughts. Just to bounce things around, what percent of Germans had a strong allegiance to the Nazi Party? I don’t know. If I don’t think it was a whole bunch, maybe like 15%. If someone knows please correct.
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_Germ ... l_election
As it happens, Hitler lost the 1932 presidential election (36% to Hindenburg's 53%), but was appointed Chancellor the following year, after which, well the rest is history...

His support in the following years was close to 100% as those who didn't support him "disappeared".
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.:Anonymous
Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
User avatar
dolanbaker
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3651
Joined: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:38:47
Location: Éire

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Cog » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 16:29:34

Its an urban left socialists versus a rural conservative right. Wearing a MAGA hat has now become an invitation for the left to deliver a beat-down on you. Meanwhile the rabid socialists are banning guns in blue states and want to extend those bans on a federal level to the rest of us in red states. College campuses are officially off-limits to conservative thought by calling it hate speech. The left wants open borders and the elimination of ICE. Yeah that includes the motor vehicles in ICE form. :-D There is no reasoning with the left so we are left with very few options here.

I've said before that one side or the other will prevail. We can not live next door to people who want us dead. We as conservatives and capitalists must destroy them or they will destroy us.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12710
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby mmasters » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 16:37:39

Thanks to Trump the left is destroying itself. Bernie will probably be the nominee this time around... he seems the most respectable and likable of the socialist left. I'm getting my popcorn ready. :)
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2148
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 16:47:58

I think if the Republicans manage to keep the White house either with Trump or a replacement for him in 2020 the liberals will lose their collective minds and real violence is possible. But I don't think you can call the Democrats well organized when a slip of a girl with a big mouth can become the de facto leader and dominate the media.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9776
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby mmasters » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 17:25:47

vtsnowedin wrote:I think if the Republicans manage to keep the White house either with Trump or a replacement for him in 2020 the liberals will lose their collective minds and real violence is possible. But I don't think you can call the Democrats well organized when a slip of a girl with a big mouth can become the de facto leader and dominate the media.

I think you're right, riots are coming if Trump stays in there. Probably mostly on college campuses and Blue state hot spots.
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2148
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: The coming Civil War

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Mar 2019, 21:22:21

City centers. That’s where the riots will start. How the cities handle it will determine a lot. I still don’t see widespread civil war, I do see the possibility of distinct pockets of civil unrest. But no sufficiently consistent ideology to tie the pockets into anything resembling an alternative government.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13084
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Next

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests