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Reverse Racism

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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 14:38:58

KaiserJeep wrote:It's YOU, and ME and everybody else who grew up in a different time. Just as your grandparents, while publicly doting on you, privately despaired that the "young people" of yesterday would ever amount to anything.

It's the circle of life, and you transcended the entire arc and are now on the other side.

You old fart, you.

OK, I can live with being a clueless old fart, same as the other old farts. It's not like anyone has a good handle on controlling time.

I had quit playing Magic, as the randomness bothered me vs. all the time spent. VS. say, chess, where at least if you objectively improve, you perform better against human opponents. But, OTOH, the exposure to all those people perhaps 35ish years younger than me on average is probably a good thing, so maybe I should play occasionally, and just not worry about getting my ASS BEAT for lack of keeping up with the game.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 15:33:11

Progressive Ds say that only people of color and women should lead the D party --- white males have got to go.

Furthermore, Ds say the "white swing voter" is a myth and Ds should no longer try to win the votes of "white swing voters."

progressives-democrats-multiracial-multicultural-party-netroots-nation-event

Its great that the Ds are trying to create a multi-racial political coalition, but I think excluding white males from leadership positions in the D party and no longer trying to attract white voters is a big mistake that amounts to racism against white people.

Welcoming in minorities shouldn't mean excluding and denigrating whites.

Cheers!
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Cog » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 17:36:43

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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby dissident » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 18:19:56

Because the rule of rabid, insecure minorities would be so much better. As if these minorities are all angels from Heaven and will not have their own petty agendas which they will be imposing on the majority, both consciously and unconsciously.

Stop and think about it. Majority rulers who feel secure and have some generosity versus rulers who are paranoid xenophobes. Basically freedom versus oppression. And the way all these special interests minorities are acting today exposes them as paranoid xenophobes.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 18:26:42

Is the idea of just treating everyone decently, and based on their skills, behaviors, etc. so impossible?

Look, I get the idea of needing to help the disadvantaged (in various ways) while they're being educated -- so they can be on a relatively even playing field.

But after that, it might be better to just let people live, work, and compete together and stop with all the profiling, special groups, etc.

We already have lots of laws that prohibit overt discrimmination, so it's not like that would suddenly be OK, BTW.

So, now I'm sure I'll be attacked by various liberals in the name of things like "fairness", but really, is the concept of the Star Trek bridge, where merit was what got you ahead such a bad thing?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Cog » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 18:48:04

Merit based hiring is racist. Voter ID is racist. All the things are racist. Even this text box I'm typing in is white. Racist.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby mmasters » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 15:38:11

When I was in the business world I once went to a HR sponsored going away party. There was a black cake and a white cake. They didn't want anyone to be offended!
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby MD » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 15:46:48

I've studied the question and have concluded that arguments claiming reverse racism doesn't exist are specious and sophistic.

so much bullshit, so little time. buh bye!
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby dissident » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 19:26:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-64bCuFYeA

People ignorant about US history should not be arbiters of modern justice in the name of long dead victims. The clowns who pimp the notion of collective white (including non use white) guilt over US slavery are full of it. They insinuate that the average American white during the 1840s was a slave owner. Nothing could be further from the truth. Slaves were owned by the rich. The rich also owned white slaves or indentured servants. White females were raped and beaten by their masters as well. In fact, that was a way to extend their contract without compensation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude

https://memory.loc.gov/ammem/awhhtml/aw ... avery.html

https://eh.net/encyclopedia/slavery-in- ... ed-states/

Despite their numbers, slaves typically comprised a minority of the local population. Only in antebellum South Carolina and Mississippi did slaves outnumber free persons. Most Southerners owned no slaves and most slaves lived in small groups rather than on large plantations. Less than one-quarter of white Southerners held slaves, with half of these holding fewer than five and fewer than 1 percent owning more than one hundred. In 1860, the average number of slaves residing together was about ten.


All the hate on for whitey while we have millions of black slaves today in the Muslim world. Whitey banned slavery in the northern US states. Slavery resulted from economic ambitions of the rich and not from market demand from white masses. Whites share no collective guilt for it.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 23:28:08

I'm an absolute believer in both real Racism and Reverse Racism.

While I have met my share of White bigots, the majority of Racists I have met are Black, and a smattering of all other races. If a white person goes into the wrong part of SF's Chinatown, they'll get a major dose of racism, for example.

Reverse Racism is mainly a government-imposed problem. But there are enough people who believe it has merit that it does not end with the government. Treating people unfairly by race until they treat each other fairly in spite of differing racial backgrounds never struck me as a good plan.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 10:53:16

Starbucks discrimination lawsuit awarded white employee $25 million



A federal jury this week found that Starbucks discriminated against a white manager who was fired amid an uproar over the company's treatment of Black customers at a store in Philadelphia five years ago.

The ex-manager, Shannon Phillips, received $25.6 million in damages after a six-day trial, Phillips' attorneys previously told ABC News.

The resolution of a lawsuit against one of the nation's largest employers drew attention to the standard for proving discrimination as well as the federal protection against bias afforded to all racial groups, regardless of whether they've faced historical marginalization, experts told ABC News.

The jury appears to have been persuaded in part by the argument that Phillips was fired as part of a public relations effort undertaken by Starbucks in response to racial justice backlash, which may carry implications for how corporations act in such circumstances, experts added.

Starbucks did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment. In court documents, the company rejected allegations of discrimination, saying that it disciplined Phillips for "legitimate, nondiscriminatory, non-retaliatory reasons."

Here's what to know about the Starbucks discrimination case and its implications, according to legal experts:
Why did the jury find that race played a role in the firing of the Starbucks employee?

In 2018, two Black men -- Donte Robinson and Rashon Nelson -- were arrested at a Philadelphia-area Starbucks store after an employee called 911 and accused them of trespassing because they had not made a purchase.

The two men later reached a private settlement with Starbucks and the City of Philadelphia, which agreed to pay each of the men $1 and establish a $200,000 fund for young entrepreneurs.

Phillips, a then-regional director who had worked at the company for nearly 13 years, was terminated less than a month after the incident.

In an initial lawsuit filed by Phillips in 2019, she said she was not at the store that day nor involved in the lead-up to the arrests, alleging instead that her race played a "determinative role" in her termination.

A key piece of evidence in the case centered on testimony from a Black district manager who said he thought race had played a role in Starbucks' decision to fire Phillips and allow him to remain with the company, Phillips' attorney previously told ABC News.

Legal experts concurred with that assessment, saying that the plaintiff's ability to point to disparate treatment of a relevant employee was critical to the jury's finding of discrimination.

"My understanding is that in these cases what you have to have is a comparative," Rick Rossein, a professor of employee discrimination law at the City University of New York Law School, told ABC News. "Here you have a Starbucks manager giving that type of testimony."

In court documents, Starbucks contested this account of its actions, saying instead that it disciplined Phillips based on poor performance. Phillips "appeared overwhelmed, frozen and lacked awareness of how critical the situation was for Starbucks and its partners," the company claimed.

Phillips appeared to further persuade the jury with her explanation for the alleged mistreatment, describing her firing as part of the company's effort to minimize the public relations fallout from the arrests, the experts added.

"Evidence points to Starbucks taking action against an employee in order to address public opinion as opposed to really addressing the question of who was involved in making that decision," Risa Lieberwitz, a professor of labor and employment law at the Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations, told ABC News.
Is it unusual for workplace discrimination cases to be brought on behalf of white people?

Phillips’ case is unusual because the majority of cases alleging a violation of federal discrimination law on the basis of race involve non-white people, legal experts told ABC News.

Legal precedent that reaches as high as the Supreme Court affirms that the measure at issue, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, protects white workers who experience discrimination, they added.

"Anti-discrimination law that deals with race discrimination applies to any allegation of race discrimination whether it would be against a white employee, a Black employee or another racial group," Lieberwitz said.

While discrimination lawsuits on behalf of white individuals are uncommon, white plaintiffs have proven more likely to succeed than non-white ones when federal judges adjudicate their racial discrimination claims, said Wendy Greene, a professor of anti-discrimination law at Drexel University Law School and the director of the Center for Law, Policy and Social Action.

"The surprise for many people, however, is that federal civil rights laws initially designed to address the longstanding, systemic racial segregation, exclusion and discrimination endured by individuals identifying as non-white are seemingly more effective at redressing racial discrimination against individuals who identify as white," Greene told ABC News.
What are the implications of the finding that Starbucks discriminated in this case?

The decision in this case could heighten scrutiny of large companies in their treatment of workers who belong to groups protected against discrimination as well as complicate efforts to discipline workers charged with improving a company's performance on racial justice issues, experts said.

"We're in the era where people are looking very carefully at decision-making by major corporations," Rosstein said.

Greene, meanwhile, said that the decision could make it more difficult for companies to supervise workers involved in the implementation of racial justice initiatives, since companies could be accused of racial discrimination if they discipline such employees.

Management must balance the need to create a work environment free of racial discrimination with a simultaneous commitment to "ensure workplaces are free of racial exclusion and subordination, which are often couched as acts of racial discrimination against white employees in favor of non-white people," Greene said.

The large award for damages in the Starbucks case could "discourage employers from disciplining or terminating employees they believe are not effectively handling complaints of discrimination," she added.


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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 10:56:15

Ex-Starbucks manager awarded $25.6 million in case tied to arrests of 2 Black men

CAMDEN, N.J. — Jurors in a federal court have awarded $25.6 million to a former Starbucks regional manager who alleged that she and other white employees were unfairly punished after the high-profile arrests of two Black men at a Philadelphia location in 2018.

Shannon Phillips won $600,000 in compensatory damages and $25 million in punitive damages on Monday after a jury in New Jersey found that race was a determinative factor in Phillips' firing, in violation of federal and state anti-discrimination.

In April 2018, a Philadelphia store manager called police on two Black men who were sitting in the coffee shop without ordering anything. Phillips, then regional manager of operations in Philadelphia, southern New Jersey, and elsewhere, was not involved with arrests. However, she said she was ordered to put a white manager who also wasn't involved on administrative leave for reasons she knew were false, according to her lawsuit.

Phillips said she was fired less than a month later after objecting to the manager being placed on leave amid the uproar, according to her lawsuit.

The company's rationale for suspending the district manager, who was not responsible for the store where the arrests took place, was an allegation that Black store managers were being paid less than white managers, according to the lawsuit. Phillips said that argument made no sense since district managers had no input on employee salaries.

The lawsuit alleged Starbucks was instead taking steps to "punish white employees" who worked in the area "in an effort to convince the community that it had properly responded to the incident."

During closing arguments on Friday, Phillips' lawyer Laura Mattiacci told jurors that the company was looking for a "sacrificial lamb" to calm the outrage and show that it was taking action, Law360 reported. Picking a Black employee for such a purpose "would have blown up in their faces," she said.

Starbucks denied Phillips' allegations, saying the company needed someone with a track record of "strength and resolution" during a crisis and replaced her with a regional manager who had such experience, including navigating the aftermath of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings, Law360 reported.

Phillips' attorney, however, cited earlier testimony from a Black district manager, who was responsible for the store where the arrests took place, who described Phillips as someone beloved by her peers and worked around the clock after the arrests.

In an email to The Associated Press, Mattiacci confirmed the award amount and said the judge will consider awarding back pay and future pay, as well as attorney's fees. Mattiacci told the New Jersey Law Journal that she will seek about $3 million for lost pay, and roughly $1 million on her fee application. Starbucks declined comment Tuesday.

In the April 2018 incident, Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson were arrested in a Starbucks coffee shop near tony Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia shortly after the manager called police to report that two men were refusing to either make a purchase or leave the premises. They were later released without charges.

Video of the arrest prompted national outcry and led the current CEO of Starbucks to personally apologize to the men. The company later reached a settlement with both men for an undisclosed sum and an offer of free college education. The company also changed store policies and closed locations across the country for an afternoon for racial-bias training.

The two men also reached a deal with the city of Philadelphia for a symbolic $1 each and a promise from officials to set up a $200,000 program for young entrepreneurs. The Philadelphia Police Department adopted a new policy on how to deal with people accused of trespassing on private property — warning businesses against misusing the authority of police officers.


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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby jato0072 » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 12:19:28

federal protection against bias afforded to all racial groups


Exactly! That is what equal protection under the law means!
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 20:57:08

Good to see the jury system working.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 21:34:38

Newfie wrote:Good to see the jury system working.


Two things about that made clear by carefully reading the posted articles.

#1 The woman who won this case was supported by her immediate subordinate, a black male, who told the jury that the woman in question was extremely motivated and competent so the firing excuse was null and void.

#2 In almost all cases where a white person brought suit and won the trial was a bench trial, i.e. the case was heard by a judge without a jury being involved.

Something I know from seeing it happen in Detroit years back and looking up the statistics. In cases where race is claimed to be a factor a jury is most often swayed against supporting a non minority defendant by emotional argumentation by the other party. There was a case of wrongful death brought against three white police officers in Detroit back in the mid 1980's. Two officers separately went with a jury trial each on advise of their police union supplied lawyer, both were convicted of second degree murder and served time in maximum security prison. The third officer chose instead to go with a bench trial, no jury, so that the judge made all the decisions based strictly on the facts presented and not on any emotional arguments put forth and he was acquitted on all counts. There were accusations of jury tampering because the juries for the other officers were allowed to watch the footage of the Rodney King beating which was still in the news but completely unrelated as those events took place in California all the way on the Pacific coast away from Detroit and the prosecutor argued it demonstrated the frame of mind of white police officers dealing with black suspects.

Maybe things have changed, but if I am ever placed in a situation where I am put on trial for a "hate crime" I would very strongly consider the bench trial option based on the way the statistics look.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 19 Jun 2023, 10:47:55

Very interesting. I just posted on the EXPERTS thread how I have a lot of faith in our jury trail system vs relying on experts.

Your argument makes a lot of sense.

Yet I suspect it has a lot to do with the judge and his competency.

My Personal experiences have been mostly in Family Court, the 7th ring of hell for law. I have seen, and been the brunt of, some clearly aggregious miss-application of judicial power. Fortunately for the worst instance I just observed. In that setting at least the Judge can become very emotionally involved and act in bizarre ways. I have been told about 90% of divorce cases are settled before the Judge, before trial. BUT, depending upon the judge, if I could observe him before hand, I would be very cautious about that decision.

Fortunately in my last in person appearance my ex allowed her true inner self come out. Which resulted in a screaming match between her and the Judge. That ended my 5 year ordeal.

But I have also seen some sage wisdom. Both by judges and by a jury trial I participated in.

Simply some personal observations.
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Re: Reverse Racism

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 06 Jul 2023, 09:09:57

That's really interesting. Normally, you would expect something more wisdom of the crowds like from including more people. It doesn't mean, however, that you can escape what a meme is doing to the collective consciousness. With racism, it's even beyond memes. It's that thing you get when you know there was something about it in the past. Because of that, you have always got to ask yourself if it is continuing. So, people have many motivations for being confused, or agreeing with others when they aren't certain. There are lots of reasons for them to be predisposed to think that racism might be involved, and even to see it when it isn't there.
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