Plantagenet wrote:It will take a lot of energy to pump water up out of the ground and INTO the reservoir. You'll get less energy out when you put the water through the turbines.
The whole idea is a net energy loser.
Cheers!
baha wrote:I saw this, and tried to figure it out. They are using some 'pumping process' to lift water back to the top (after it goes thru the turbine)? How does that make sense? Just stop one of the turbines and save some water for later...
This whole concept requires excess energy. You need to put some water back in Lake Mead before it will make a decent battery and that ain't gonna happen. The Colorado River is running out and Las Vegas will drink it anyway. This is a bad plan.
The better plan is build PV and batteries in CA to carry the loads and shut down half of the turbines in the dam. Let the water level come back up...
baha wrote:I saw this, and tried to figure it out. They are using some 'pumping process' to lift water back to the top (after it goes thru the turbine)? How does that make sense? Just stop one of the turbines and save some water for later...
This whole concept requires excess energy. You need to put some water back in Lake Mead before it will make a decent battery and that ain't gonna happen. The Colorado River is running out and Las Vegas will drink it anyway. This is a bad plan.
The better plan is build PV and batteries in CA to carry the loads and shut down half of the turbines in the dam. Let the water level come back up...
Raccoon Mountain Pumped-Storage Plant is a pumped-storage hydroelectric underground power station in Marion County, just west of Chattanooga in the U.S. state of Tennessee.
The facility is owned and operated by the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). Construction was started in 1970 and was completed in 1978.[7]
Water is pumped from Nickajack Lake on the Tennessee River at the base of Raccoon Mountain to a storage reservoir built at the top of the mountain. The reservoir at the top of the mountain covers 528 acres (214 ha), with a dam that is 230 feet (70 m) high and 5,800 feet (1,800 m) long, the largest rock-fill dam ever built by TVA. It takes 28 hours to fill the upper reservoir. During periods of high electric demand, water can be released from the reservoir through a tunnel drilled through the center of the mountain, driving electric generators in an underground hydroelectric plant.[7] The plant has a capacity of 1,652 megawatts (2,215,000 hp) of electricity and can generate for up to 22 hours. The plant is used most days and serves as an important element for peak power generation and grid balancing in the TVA system.[8][9]....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raccoon_M ... rage_Plant
Bath County Pumped Storage Station
The Bath County Pumped Storage Station is a pumped storage hydroelectric power plant, which is described as the "largest battery in the world",[2] with a generation capacity of 3,003 MW[3] The station is located in the northern corner of Bath County, Virginia, on the southeast side of the Eastern Continental Divide, which forms this section of the border between Virginia and West Virginia. The station consists of two reservoirs separated by about 1,260 feet (380 m) in elevation. It is the largest pumped-storage power station in the world.[3]
Construction on the power station, with an original capacity of 2,100 megawatts (2,800,000 hp), began in March 1977 and was completed in December 1985 at a cost of $1.6 billion,[4][5] Voith-Siemens upgraded the six turbines between 2004 and 2009, increasing power generation to 500.5 MW and pumping power to 480 megawatts (640,000 hp) for each turbine.[6][7] Bath County Station is jointly owned by Dominion Generation (60%) and FirstEnergy (40%), and managed by Dominion.[3] It stores energy for PJM Interconnection, a regional transmission organization in 13 states and the District of Columbia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_Coun ... ge_Station
Wallace Dam Pumped Storage
In 1979 Lake Oconee was created with the completion of Wallace Dam, which is a pumped-storage reservoir for Lake Sinclair. The water is pumped from Lake Sinclair into Lake Oconee. It is then released through Wallace Dam back into Lake Sinclair - thus generating electricity. The net effect of the power generation process is an approximate 2-foot (0.61 m) drop or rise in Lake Sinclair's water level. .....
https://www.energystorageexchange.org/projects/239
KaiserJeep wrote:the idea is to surround the lake with solar and wind farms. The idea is to use renewables plus pumped storage to substitute for FF power plants as baseline power.
Practically speaking, this is a California deal. California's usage of Hoover Dam energy slightly exceeds the other six states in most years.
Plantagenet wrote:KaiserJeep wrote:the idea is to surround the lake with solar and wind farms. The idea is to use renewables plus pumped storage to substitute for FF power plants as baseline power.
Practically speaking, this is a California deal. California's usage of Hoover Dam energy slightly exceeds the other six states in most years.
Sorry....its such a weird idea I couldn't believe anyone would propose it at first. Its so wacky...its as almost as wacky as the Soviets stealing all the water that used to go into the Aral Sea and accidentally creating a vast desert.
So the idea is to pump up groundwater from the Ogallala Aquifer, which is already running out of water in some areas, and build an enormous pipeline across four states and then pump the water past farms that rely on the Ogallala Aquifer so the water can be diverted to Lake Mead to make electricity for Los Angeles.
Sorry Prairie States. LA wants to steal some of your water. I'm sure you won't mind.
Fair enough.
Except it would be much simpler to just build nuclear power plants in California and use those to provide baseline energy when the wind is down and the sun don't shine. There is no need for California to steal water from the Prairie States when California has other alternatives to generate baseline power.
Cheers!
KaiserJeep wrote: But maybe we'll get real lucky and the drought will end in lots of rain.
KaiserJeep wrote:The aquifer discussion is NOT part of the plan. I was just noting that they need to refill Lake Meade before the pumped storage plan can be implemented. Using aquifer water would be a bad choice. But maybe we'll get real lucky and the drought will end in lots of rain.
baha wrote:What I saw on PBS said there was two parts. They would pump salt water from CA to NV, desalinate it, and dump it in Lake Mead. As well as recirculate discharged water at the dam. They would build a small reservoir a few miles downstream and pump it with solar.
I suppose this makes sense if the solar field is right there by the pump. I saw a big solar field when I was there near Bolder City. It's closer to the loads (Las Vegas) than the dam. But there's lots of room for more...
A better plan would be to pump water from Lake Mead to Lake Powell. And then let it run back down the Grand Canyon. So we can ride
This all depends on water. If the lake is empty it won't work...
baha wrote:I understand pumped hydro-storage. You need two reservoirs, bottom and top.
What I saw on PBS said there was two parts. They would pump salt water from CA to NV, desalinate it, and dump it in Lake Mead. As well as recirculate discharged water at the dam. They would build a small reservoir a few miles downstream and pump it with solar.
I suppose this makes sense if the solar field is right there by the pump. I saw a big solar field when I was there near Bolder City. It's closer to the loads (Las Vegas) than the dam. But there's lots of room for more...
A better plan would be to pump water from Lake Mead to Lake Powell. And then let it run back down the Grand Canyon. So we can ride
This all depends on water. If the lake is empty it won't work...
GHung wrote:Planty, you also have a nuke obsession.
GHung wrote:Compare $3 billion for this proposed system with the debacle going on in GA with Plant Vogtle's 2 new reactors; now expected to surpass $22 billion.
GHung wrote:As for water availability, Hover dam is still operating at about 75% capacity. Must be some water somewhere.
GHung wrote:But, yeah, lets build another $30 billion worth of new nukes. Makes more sense than utilizing capacity already built and on the grid.
GHung wrote:My grand idea is to get Musk's Boring machines to dig tunnels from the Pacific to Death Valley. Create an inland sea and build multiple pumped storage reservoirs in the mountains above the new sea. Put millions of PV panels around the sea to run the pumps.
Plant said; "I'm skeptical that a water pipeline could be built all the way from the Ogallala aquifer or the Pacific ocean to Lake Mead for a mere three billion dollars.
Where exactly would that existing capacity on the grid be? California has been on the verge of power blackouts during the current heat wave....would you be so kind as to tell California where all tha existing capacity is so they can avoid blackout worries in the future.
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