Darian S wrote:Being forced to do a meaningless task to survive, is degrading and insulting. A basic universal income, is no different than a rightfully deserved inheritance. That society tolerates unregulated birth giving rise to individuals with no significant inheritance, no adequate health, no adequate education, no adequate housing or food, etc. is a tragedy that it unethically allows.
Once humanity has full automation there is no need for the rest of the population to perform any physical or mental task to survive. All that is needed is regulation of reproduction to reduce the population and increase the true wealth of all.
All welfare typically does is create parasites. Not everyone is created equal. Some of us are more evolved and desire to make something of ourselves.
Full automation for everybody is a pipe dream. There will always be a need for people to repair computers and robots. We're not here to find some kind of utopia for everyone, our purpose is individual and in my belief it goes beyond the physical world.
Good luck finding a way to keep the low level people from reproducing.
ralfy wrote:Not just a social obligation but the source of wealth, as consumers are in essence the same employees.
Newfie wrote:Tanada,
I just wanted to clarify that when I mentioned “trickle down” it was not meant to be a disparaging comment. It’s what happens in any mercantile system.
The concept that everything should or could be left to trickle down is something different.
I think we could kill a few pleasant evenings discussing the details.
I’ve come to the queer idea that prisoners are an integral part of our economic system because they are “pure” consumers. They create a number of jobs and economic activity without producing anything. In our culture, highly efficient, when someone produces there is then the problem of finding someone to consume that production. Production without consumption kills growth. Prisoners are a pure sink.
So are they to be admired for their role in our society? Are they not the ultimate beneficiary of trickle down? Do they not receive some form of BMI?
Lots and lots of contradictions in our system.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Newfie wrote:What do you do with the ox?
Newfie wrote:The vantage point of the observer informs the discussion. Let’s talk about oxen instead.
You have a farm, a pretty big one, and you need several teams of oxen to work the fields. And because ox need to eat, they reduce your marketable share.
Now you buy a big tractor. It is much more efficient and reliable. It doesn’t need to eat so you can sell more product.
What do you do with the ox?
And why the answer is different when talking about humans informs us as to why this is such a thorny issue.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
mmasters wrote:All welfare typically does is create parasites. Not everyone is created equal. Some of us are more evolved and desire to make something of ourselves.
Full automation for everybody is a pipe dream. There will always be a need for people to repair computers and robots. We're not here to find some kind of utopia for everyone, our purpose is individual and in my belief it goes beyond the physical world.
Good luck finding a way to keep the low level people from reproducing.
Darian S wrote:Regards rising prices universal basic income should be pegged to inflation. Also housing and transportation as well as healthcare and education should be provided.
mmasters wrote:.......Money doesn't grow on trees......
mmasters wrote:Darian S wrote:Regards rising prices universal basic income should be pegged to inflation. Also housing and transportation as well as healthcare and education should be provided.
Money doesn't grow on trees. A yearly UBI of $10,000 for everyone in the US is around 4 trillion a year. The government only takes in about that much a year in taxes. There wouldn't be any left for Social Security, Medicare, Infrastructure, Education, Housing, and on and on. So you say, tax the rich more, well do that and they will leave the country and go somewhere else. Socialism may sound good in theory but it lacks common sense in economics. If you want to bankrupt the country and ruin your opportunities then vote for a guy like Bernie Sanders.
GHung wrote:mmasters wrote:.......Money doesn't grow on trees......
In a sense, it does. Especially when it comes to conjuring money into existence to bail out banks, provide free loans to corporations, pay off the MIC, and to conduct wars-not-of-necessity. Just sayin'.... Our current president (self-proclaimed King of debt) just signed a conjuring of a couple of trillion more dollars.
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