Sixstrings wrote:I don't know what my point is, other than I'm not a bigot and never will be.
On some things, it's appropriate to take a side, in one's opinion. Like regarding constitutional democracy -- that's important. If there's nothing else that unites Americans, then it's the Constitution and that way of government and society.. it's the framework for everything else.
People may have different skin colors and ethnicities, and religious books or none at all -- but we've all got the same Constitution.
Religious -- I'm not into it, I suppose I'm like an agnostic / atheist really; yet I am a Christian, I will never say I'm not a Christian -- if I HAD to pick a church it would be those groovy Uniterian Universalists. Although, I like a Catholic cathedral too. Or even a really good Baptist preacher.
Mostly, most of all, I'm a secular person -- a humanist. Rational, REASON, not dogma.
I'll never be a bigot about muslims either.. but I do care about NO religious group, or very conservative faction thereof, trying to impose itself on everyone else (in Turkey, it's fundamentalist religious oppressing secular-minded religious, well I'm on the side of women that want to be able to laugh in public).
But oppression can come from Christianity too, be it Baptists or Catholics or anything else, conceivably, denying rights to the rest of society.
The thing about fundamentalist islam though is that there's so much terrorism and violence. So okay, I'm just objective, that thing really is a bit of a problem.
And then, there is the racial issue.
I don't like that "becoming" an "issue." It wasn't in years past, and shouldn't be now. On this question, BOTH sides have some fault and are wrong.
Rudy Giulani is right -- black folks really do have to be careful around the police, because guess what, white folks do too. People must have respect, they must act a certain way in a traffic stop, and they must follow the law regardless of race. The time to make an issue of things is in court, or people can follow up AFTER a traffic stop and make a complaint with the police department.
Black folks have some valid points too, though -- that actually, police are a bit too hard on everybody. It was the post 9/11 militarization of the police.
And then GUN CONTROL comes into play -- so many guns out there, is a big part of the problem. Which of course conservatives don't want to talk about at all, in any shape or form.
Here's one area where some white folks are wrong -- all the jokes about Obama, and the extreme anti Obama vitriol over these years.. look folks, that's racial. That's just my opinion. I know it when I see it, and that's what it has been.
So you see, EVERYONE is wrong.
But what we don't need, is to go BACKWARD in race relations. Other than all the anti Obama stuff, this country really was post racial. Or that's my experience, anyway, my life experience. So let's not go BACKWARD. There's no "ideology" about being black or white, it's just a color, and there never should be an ideology to it.
A lot of this racial discussion -- it's like, BOTH sides are just trying to stir something up and start something that *was not there before*, so that's what I don't agree with.
And I'm being critical of the Left, too. They should just stop talking about race. Not being willing to ever let it go, is what keeps it going -- so just drop it. No more labels. No black, no white, get over it.
dohboi wrote:Thanks for that thoughtful comment Hc.
Do you think that at some point (or occasionally already) the police can no longer be seen as 'keeping the peace' but rather as actually inciting violence and sparking riots?
Hawkcreek wrote:The last time I was stopped for a traffic violation I commented to the officer that it was a nice day. He replied, "Shut up unless I ask you a question".
The problem continues to grow on both sides because of that lack of respect.
Hawkcreek wrote:I've been away from the forum for a while, and since my return this morning I've read a couple of threads that have some posters emphasizing unity over divisiveness.
Maybe we are making a little progress.
I've always thought the whole left/right thing was a constructed artifice, designed to make sure people continue to cheer for their side, rather than look at each individual issue.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
onlooker wrote:Yes, I have to say regardless of where each of us falls on this issue, law enforcement is a bedrock of any civilized society. As such, we the general population must respect these individuals who are doing an important job. Vigilantes and general grudges while they may seem justified must be curtailed for the sake of everyone. I have written already that some over zealous or aggressive policing has been occurring. Nevertheless, if everyone including police and civilians cannot abide by the law, then truly we will end with total anarchy and chaos.
Newfie wrote:Hawk,
Not to quibble with your point but to perhaps clarify.....
I think "beleaguered" is the more operative word.
I believe that most in America feel beleaguered, and the pols reinforce that seeking to manipulate us into voting their way. From the very little MSM I see it seems the public is bombarded with threatening news bits. None of which are actionable. "If it bleeds it leads." This tends to jack people up on all sides.
But it also strikes me that there has been a general militarization of the police through the introduction of more and more fire power and military grade weapons and training. On the other hand the populace is also arming with mil grade stuff. Some because they are crooks, some are scared, some with over grown fantasies, and in some cases some justly. But there is no doubt the country is arming at a fairly steep rate. It's as if our collective unconscious knows a civil war is coming and is prepping.
The various cop reality shows probably do nothing to help the matter. I can see that they lead to stupid fantasies on both sides.
At this juncture I don't see the situation improving. Sadly.
I just dont want to lay on blame on the average joe, no matter his race or religion. I think the roots of this mess are deeper. A failure of our culture.
Laws are just a human creation, and when they are corrupted to favor the few, the many will object.
This is a war, and Black Lives Matter is the enemy
Americans watching the news of the murders of police officers in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, are observing a civil war unfold within our borders. A war between rule of law and anarchy-seeking hate.
The murders in Baton Rouge, and before them Dallas, were not acts of domestic terrorism but guerrilla urban warfare against the police - who represent law and order - against the Constitution, and against the American way. The police, the men and women whom I as the Sheriff of Milwaukee County ask to put their lives on the line, are on the front lines of this war.
It’s time to come to the aid of our police, our front-line soldiers, by calling this war, and not terrorism. Avoiding the truth through wordsmithing – the false narrative of the lone-wolf – is contemptible as more innocent officers perish while our politicians hem and haw.
We as a people need to declare that we stand with rule of law, and not with the false tales of the revolutionary Marxist forces, who most recently have rebranded themselves from Occupy Wall Street to Black Lives Matter.
The targeting of police for hate and for murder is by Black Lives Matter and their accomplices are, in actuality, the targeting is our rule of law. Groups like Black Lives Matter, blessed by the progressive left and most recently our own President Obama, need to be exposed and condemned for their true aims: revolution.
Black Lives Matter organizers hold the same values of America’s age-old enemies, who have always fought the ideals of our Constitution and our nation. That they have now taken on as their costume a false concern for Black America only adds to their depravity.
This president will not name Black Lives Matter the enemy. Instead, the White House proactively defended the revolutionary group in the most unfitting of contexts: the eulogies for fallen police officers in Dallas, Texas. He has invited those who speak hate against our rule of law and police officers, in some cases the only element that stands between the violence-plagued communities and their utter destruction, into his fold. The Democrats and their leaders have made their choice known to the American people: utter capitulation.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/c ... -civil-war
Return to North America Discussion
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests