[cualcrees]

Since 2003 Coal consumption has increased 9x faster than Wind energy and 40x than Solar

http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/envir ... 40x-solar/

[Tanada]

Coal is cheap and does not require high technology to mine, transport or burn.

[basil_hayden]

We keep trying to explain this to Graeme.

[Loki]

Well that's unfortunate. I kind of figured as much, but didn't know the magnitude. Not surprisingly, pretty much all of this rise in coal use has been in Asia.



Environmental justice types will argue that Asia has a "right" to develop just like the West has. I disagree. They made a "choice" to increase their population into the billions. Quantity over quality.

The best thing that could happen, climate wise, is a total collapse of the Chinese economy.

[Shaved Monkey]

But the shops will be empty.
We outsourced our factories,slave labour and pollution to Asia

[sparky]

.
Coal has many advantages , it has a very high power density , that make it cheaper for the buck
it is very easy to dig , transport , stock and use ,
storage can be massive and infinite in extend and duration .
having a mountain of coal five miles down the road present no risk whatsoever to babies and pregnant women
the biggest risk is young teenagers using them as great playgrounds
it's fully compliant with the existing power usage , the associated technologies are mature to the point of near optimum
Tanada , just visit a thermal power station , something in the Gigawatt range , the technology is complex , the controls have millions of interconnections , feedback controls and visuals , nowadays there is a whole room at the back with dedicated computers to manage it

clean coal burn clean , dirty coal burn dirty , everybody know that , it is not too difficult to scrub the flues
as a ratio of the amount of power generated it create a lot less toxic waste than the solar panel industry

[Tanada]

Don't forget Indonesia is far past their Peak Oil and has been increasing their internal coal mining for both use and export. Peak oil is a complex inter-relationship between what you have and what you want to accomplish with what you have. Both the USA and Indonesia increased coal consumption after they passed Peak Oil. For the UK when the North Sea provided an oil boom they cut coal consumption substantially, but now that they have passed both Peak Oil and Peak Natural Gas there is a lot of talk about things like underground coal gassification to get the energy they want without having to depend on foreign sources.

IMO coal will grow in use until it can't, just like oil did and gas is doing. The vast mass of humanity doesn't want to believe in climate change, so they don't, or they convince themselves it will give them an advantage. This all adds up to ever more CO2 and Methane escaping onto the atmosphere until something drastic happens to change it.

[ROCKMAN]

Well put T. And that's just another reason I keep pushing the POD. It should be rather obvious to everyone what you've just highlighted: coal consumption is an integral part of the POD. Which also means climate change is also part of the foundation of the POD. Which is why it's foolish IMHO to try to argue any alteration of GHG production without integrating it with the necessary consumption of fossil fuels. AGW and oil/NG/coal consumption are not two different sides of the same coin IMHO: they all exist right on the front of a $100 bill. LOL.

[dinopello]

This all adds up to ever more CO2 and Methane escaping onto the atmosphere until something drastic happens to change it.

Sounds like a plan we can all get behind !

Seriously, you just have to laugh at the predicaments and conundrums. I've said before - I don't think humans are all that different from other animals in terms of reproducing as much as possible, consuming resources, destroying habitat etc - but we are probably the best at it at a grand scale and we also are perceptive enough to be aware of what we are doing and maybe even have some ideas for responses. Its just that we can't stop it all, everywhere, so all we can really do is complain about it.

[Tanada]

The World is in love with coal, no matter what optimistic pronouncements may be made. Coal is a filthy energy source, but it is cheap in a world of limited options most of which are expensive.

At the very moment President Obama has decided to shutter America's coal industry in favor of much more expensive and less efficient "renewable energy," coal use is surging across the globe.

A new study by the prestigious National Academy of Sciences detects an unmistakable "coal renaissance" under way that shows this mineral of fossilized carbon has again become "the most important source of energy-related emissions on the global scale."

Coal is expanding rapidly "not only in China and India but also across a broad range of developing countries — especially poor, fast-growing countries mainly in Asia," the study finds.

Why is coal such a popular energy source now? The NAS study explains that many nations are attracted to "(relatively) low coal prices . .. to satisfy their energy needs." It also finds "the share of coal in the energy mix indeed has grown faster for countries with higher economic growth."

In sum, using coal is a stepping stone to prosperity. So much for it being a satanic energy source.

Hardly a day passes without evidence that coal is making a major comeback:

• Some 1,200 coal plants are planned across 59 countries, with about three-quarters in China and India, according to the World Resources Institute.

• Coal use around the world has grown about four times faster than renewables, according to the global energy monitoring publication BP Review of World Energy 2015.

• German coal "will remain a major, and probably the largest, fuel source for power generation for another decade and perhaps longer," the Financial Times concludes.

• "The U.S. is dropping coal plants at an unprecedented rate, but still nowhere near as quickly as India is adding them," Bloomberg Business reckons.

"By the end of this year, some 7.5% of the U.S. coal fleet will have disappeared ... . But by 2020 India may have built about 2.5 times as much capacity as the U.S. is about to lose."

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... z3i9KvlP5e

[ennui2]

We keep trying to explain this to Graeme.

That was my initial thought as well. Graeme had a way of cherry-picking rosy statistics about renewables in isolation.

[ennui2]

Its just that we can't stop it all, everywhere, so all we can really do is complain about it.

Some of us complain. The rest live in denial. Not that it makes that much of a difference in the end.

[lpetrich]

Looking all the way back to 2003? That's an excessively long baseline. Wind and solar only became significant challengers in the last few years.

GLOBAL STATISTICS - GWECGWEC from the Global Wind Energy Council.
The year's installed capacity and its cumulative value:
2003: 8 GW, 39 GW
2015: 63 GW, 432 GW

Growth of photovoltaics - Wikipedia
Cumulative value:
2003: 2.5 GW
2015: 250 GW

I concede that I'm very surprised at how well photovoltaic cells are doing. I remember getting interested in renewable energy a few years ago, and thinking that wind was far ahead of solar. Now the two are neck and neck, and I've gotten a lot of spam about solar panels for my home.