[GHung]

I'm a DIY kind of guy. I built my own home, water system, energy systems, outbuildings, greenhouse, fences..... I could go on. How much did I save in terms of money, resources, and energy. I'm not going to try and quantify everything on some sort of ledger, as this is a broader question. How much does doing these things myself save society in terms of overall consumption?

Scenario one:

I decide what I want to do, make a plan, call a contractor (who makes a trip to my home to see what I want done), agree on a price, sign a contract, and factor that cost into our income/savings. Of course, someone in the family has to work to produce those funds in the first place. The contractor generally has to hire help, pay taxes, get business insurance and licenses, cover health insurance for himself and employees somehow (thanks to the ACA), pay many other associated costs. He and his employees have to get back and forth to the job. I could go on, but hiring a contractor involves hiring numerous other intermediaries in what becomes a fairly complex assembly of arrangements and supply chains, including getting materials, and hiring subcontractors, etc.. As a former contractor, I can attest to the fact that there's also a lot of waste involved along the way; the costs of which are built into the eventual price I pay. No matter. Hopefully the job gets done to my satisfaction, and likely done quickly compared to my plodding and deliberate way of doing things. In the end, however, there are probably hundreds of workers and intermediaries involved in what may be a fairly simple project.

Scenario two:

I produce my plan at my desk, make a list (hopefully complete), check to see if I can cut back on that list using stuff I've salvaged or have left over from previous jobs, etc., Then I make a trip to the home store, load my carts, pay for the stuff, load it on my trailer, haul it home and go to work. No contract, often no permit - certain things in my jurisdiction don't require permits if it's a DIY job. Besides, who's to know? I have my own insurance already, and there are no employees, except, perhaps, a little help from friends and family. Anyone who visits my place will soon realise that I waste very little. I've eliminated a slew of intermediaries and their related consumption, and the sole employee is me. I'm already here and don't need transportation to/from the job.

Then there's "sweat equity"; wealth produced from my own labor that doesn't get transferred to the greater economy. When I completed our home and had it appraised, about 60% of its appraised value was my own sweat equity. Of course, it took about 6 years, but what's the rush?

My main question is; how much do I save in terms of overall energy, materials, and other costs by doing things myself? How much does the greater economy suffer? Am I not being a "team player", or am I doing my part by reducing my overall consumption while achieving the same (often better, IMO) results? While I admit that my motives are, in part, selfish, that I have the skills to do most of the things I need done (and enjoy doing them), and that if I built it, I can repair/maintain it, I have to wonder; is society better off? Does it make any difference at all?

[ennui2]

How much does the greater economy suffer? Am I not being a "team player"'

I don't think there is any civic duty to behave a certain way to prop up the economy.

For instance, were suffering depression era people shirking their responsibility by scrimping and saving? The business class may have thought so. "You're making the problem worse!" they'd probably say. Well, tough. In a free country you're entitled to consume or NOT consume. So I don't consider DIY selfish at all.

It's like, when I get up each morning, I can either make my own coffee with some Folgers or I can drive down to Starbucks and pay $4+ for a latte. Doing the latter does more to the economy than slowly using up my Folgers. But am I duty-bound to drink Starbucks every day in order to make sure the baristas have a job? Sure, if everyone settled with Folgers instead of Starbucks, it would have a measurable impact on the health of Starbucks, putting baristas out of work. But it's just nobody's individual responsibility to worry about such things.

[GHung]

I agree, ennui2, though I know people who say they don't. Anyway, I'll keep focussing on reducing complexity wherever I can. DIY clearly does that under most circumstances.

[Paulo1]

Being a tradesman (carpenter) I have never hired anyone for anything until two years ago. I just learned and did whatever as a point of pride. However, in our Valley a Toyota mechanic/tech set up his own business after being dicked around by the dealership in town. Now, he is booked up for a week at a time. He charges 1/2 the dealership rate and provides parts at cost. I use him for a few reasons. He is honest...and the bills are reasonable. He knows what he is doing. It is important for our Valley to have him be successful. In a downturn we need a local mechanic so we should support him. Plus, when he is too busy he just tells me what to do. One example, I did not know you could simply short out the code-reader plug and get a morse code flash from the engine service light. Then, discern the number, look it up on the internet, and order the right part!!! I know that now and do it.

Other than that, if I had to hire stuff done we simply would not have what we do. I have saved, literally, maybe $200,000.00+ over the years? Don't know because I didn't keep track. It also allowed me to retire at 57. I took a welding course the day I retired. 4 months of flat, upside down, backwards..whatever, 8 hours a day; welding structural and cutting with torch and plasma like a monkey until I figured I learned what I wanted and then quit. Defintely the oldest guy to ever take the college welding course...and way too old to do it as a newbie. But for home fab? Awesome skills to learn and use.

I highly recommend folks take pre-apprenticeship courses at any age to learn new skills. My son is an electrician, so any dodgy stuff in that field I leave it to him, but basic wiring is straight forward if you do it right!! College instructors really like older students as they have a good work ethic, know when to shut up and listen, and never require a 'tune up'.

[Newfie]

I needed to learn some welding to work on our boats. I tried to find a course here in Philadelphia. None, nada, zip. One professional course for mucho bucks. Some suburban schools gave technical courses, but I'd have to fight my way back and forth during rush hour. Made more sense to just buy the gear and practice.

LOTS of courses for all kinds of "medical file technician" and other related stuff.

DIY does not, thank God, benefit our society because you are not spreading the bucks around. It benefits yu and yours, that's good enough.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I don't think there is any civic duty to behave a certain way to prop up the economy.

For instance, were suffering depression era people shirking their responsibility by scrimping and saving? The business class may have thought so. "You're making the problem worse!" they'd probably say. Well, tough. In a free country you're entitled to consume or NOT consume. So I don't consider DIY selfish at all.

Excellent point, IMO.

It reminds me of how when I saved a large portion of my salary as a single young man, my liberal friends would tend to say things like "If everyone were like you, it would destroy the economy!"

"When I'm taking money or property from people by coercion, feel free to get back to me.", I'd respond.

...

Meanwhile, on DIY projects, perhaps those who are good at math but bad at using tools etc. should just "call the man" and get things done right the first time.

Like the time I tried to replace my 50ish year old dryer vent (cloth with a spring in it) that collapsed in my parents' old house. So yeah, I did the work myself, and used $30ish worth of parts instead of the $90 bill to call the appliance folks. OTOH, I made THREE trips to Home Depot, as I discovered my inexperience in what tools and parts I would need made me likely 9 times less efficient as experts in actually accomplishing the task.

Add to this three different nights of sleeping badly as I aggravated my arthritic hands/wrists crawling around on top of the dryer three times --- it's like the joke when the wife is calling the maintenance man after the husband nearly destroys the house fixing something.

[Cog]

I would say you are saving some energy by DIY type projects. I recently had to replace some drywall, do some plumbing, rebuild some sub-floor, and install a toilet. Now if I had hired a contractor, he would no doubt would have completed the tasks quicker than I did. Materials that were used would be the same. But the contractor has a building, a staff who answers phones, perhaps an accountant. There is an energy cost to his building and the energy cost of the people who drive a vehicle to his building each morning.

But instead I hired a handyman who I trusted to help me, who runs a business out of his home. So his energy usage is already part of his normal existence. I made one trip to Home Depot to buy everything he said we would need to do the project. The plus side is I learned a great deal about plumbing and drywall. So next time, I can make these repairs myself. It will take me more time than a skilled tradesman but it would seem to me I would use less energy than he would.

[evilgenius]

No, you personally wouldn't have that great of an impact either way. The question that begs to be asked, however, is what is the impact of everybody behaving that way, in aggregate?

Everybody likes to brag about their prowess, but how much of their work is any good? If it is faulty or low quality who winds of having to live with it? How much of the fixing of what was done wrong would rely upon taste? How much upon agreed upon poor craftsmanship? What's the difference if you are some yokle who doesn't give a damn?

Having to meet common standards is a big part of why there are craftsmen who spend a lot of time learning their craft. Common standards, though, can become a straight jacket. Why shouldn't you be able to replace your own furnace/boiler if it goes out? Try doing that in a country like England, though, where gildish political lobbying has made it nearly impossible. Oh, you can do it, but when it comes time to sell your house you had better have a Corgi certified tech come in and redo it first.

I tend to side with doing stuff myself, and lament later if I screwed something up. Maybe I learned something, like what good is a guarantee on a part from an auto parts store if it failed and caused several other parts to wear out too soon as well? If you pay a mechanic there is a wall that accepts things in the guarantee and theoretically doesn't parse like that.

Basically, I like the freedom to try my hand. But I also don't agree with passing along trouble to others.

[EXSLOPER]

So thinking about how much DIY saves in terms of energy and resources the simple answer is that it doesn't save much at all after all the same job get's done using the same materials so other than what might be a bit of fuel for a contractor to use to get to your house it's pretty much a wash.
On a personal level everyones answer will be different since we are essentially paying with "time" I have to work x number of hours to earn x amount of cash. If a carpenter will work for an amount lower than your net pay then it might make sense to hire him, pay his fee and pocket the difference! Unfortunately I actually enjoy DIY so di it even when it doesn't make financial sense.

[Cog]

For things that involve safety issues, like a new furnace or central air unit, it makes sense to me to go with a certified professional. Plus there is generally a warranty involved with their work. For the more cosmetic stuff like painting or drywall, I can do a lot of that myself.

There is a time element involved too. I know how to roof houses since I did do a lot of this as a younger man for summer work. But when I had my roof replaced, I hired a contractor to do it. He brought out four guys and they were done with the tear-off and new shingles in 8 hours. It would have taken me several days to do this by myself and I would have had to take time off work. And hope it didn't rain in that week long project.