[Tanada]

There have been a number of incidents in the continental USA in the last 7 years that were intended to be terror attacks, but our government has twisted itself in pretzel shapes to avoid referring to them as such. "The Fort Hood Shooter was Workplace Violence" "The Boston Marathon bombing was a tragedy" "The San Bernadino massacre could be workplace violence". While sooner or later each incident is defined as terrorism the weasel words and pretzel twisting soon returns to the press conferences and speeches.

While this may be a kind of psychological warfare against terror organizations by denying them acknowledgment of their attacks it also serves to disquiet the citizens of my country. The attack in San Bernadino a few days ago was one more time that people who consider themselves to be devout Muslims have attacked targets within North America. Just last July there were several marines and a sailor shot in recruiting centers before fleeing in a running shoot out with police. An almost identical incident of shooting recruiters happened in June 2009. Later in 2009 the Fort Hood shooting took place. In 2013 the Tsarneyev brothers executed the Boston Marathon bombings and then engaged in a shoot out with police a few days later when they were spotted. In October of 2014 another Islamic man used a bladed weapon to hack four Police officers in New York before being shot dead. Then in December 2014 another Muslim gunman shot two NYC police execution style before taking his own life when cornered in the subway system. In May 2015 two Muslim men opened fire on the crowd at the 'Draw Mohamed' contest in Garland, Texas.

Terrorism has been with us for a long time, but it seems to me the pace of attacks has accelerated greatly over the last few years. One major attack in 2013, two attacks in late 2014 and now three attacks in 2015.

[Newfie]

Tanda,

Terror can be caused by anyone. What you point out are "religious fundamentalist attacks", or yet more specifically "Islamic fundamentalist attacks."

Just to continue your clarification of language.

We also have had some mass shootings not by Islamic fundamentalist. Batman, various High School attacks by students, and the grade school.

What, if anything, do these attacks have in common besides guns? Clearly they were all done by "crazies", but beyond that what?

[Newfie]

I presume someone somewhere is tracking all mass shootings and trying to describe them and categorize them. Make a database and look for commonalities and trends.

Does anyone here know of such a source available to us? A report or analysis perhaps?

[Cog]

Try this one Newfie.

http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015

Mostly raw data and a link to a news story. No analysis as far as I can tell.

Another source a bit easier to read

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -full-data

[Cog]

FBI data and analysis of Active shooters. Link takes you to a pdf.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 8919,d.eWE

One thing you will notice is that in a lot of cases, no one dies in what is classified as mass shootings. A lot of wounded. In the inner cities the way this plays out is a drive by shooting where the shooter just opens up at a group of people. Not a lot of aimed fire like what we saw in San Bernardino or the Aurora theatre shooting.

Also, while pistols are used in the bulk of homicides, there are a lot more injured by pistol shots than killed. While the use of a rifle is more rare in mass shootings, you get a more lethal result. Which makes sense since rifles, by their nature create more damage to the body and are quite a bit easier to aim than a pistol.

[Tanada]

Tanda,

Terror can be caused by anyone. What you point out are "religious fundamentalist attacks", or yet more specifically "Islamic fundamentalist attacks."

Just to continue your clarification of language.

We also have had some mass shootings not by Islamic fundamentalist. Batman, various High School attacks by students, and the grade school.

What, if anything, do these attacks have in common besides guns? Clearly they were all done by "crazies", but beyond that what?

Some of them, like the Columbine shooters and the Batman theater shooter were on mind altering drugs, usually by prescription. In the old days we kept people who needed regular medication in facilities where their dosage was administered on time by the staff. Since the 1980's almost every mental ward in the USA has been closed and all those people are supposed to self medicate. This has lead to two major issues, sometimes people forget to take a dose, or forget they already took a dose and either they get too little or too much medication. Second problem many Doctors pass out mind altering chemicals with little thought to the overall implications. Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, bipolar, anti-schizophrenia, ADD/ADHD all get passed around like candy by some doctors, while other doctors do not feel qualified and hardly ever prescribe them. This compounds the problem by putting people who should never be prescribed drugs on one end of the spectrum and people who should be but are not on the other end.

No I do not have a good answer, though I do place a lot of blame on our culture with its pop a pill to fix a problem conditioning. Rx do help many many people, but when used incorrectly they also harm a lot of people. I think the ADD/ADHD meds are some of the most horribly over prescribed drugs on the planet. About 90 percent of the recipients are fidgety boys who need to spend time running and playing. Instead of having recess or gym sessions they get stuffed with drugs so they can sit still in school where the teacher can 'educate' them on how to take the next mandated test. When they get into adulthood they have no comprehension of self control because their entire memory is of taking meds to fix 'what was wrong with them' when they were actually just normal boys acting like boys.

So how do we stop the crazies? Well fixing the system that thinks a pill can cure depression when in reality life can be very hard and unfulfilling would go a long way. Depression exists because of two things, bipolar disorder and real world events that need to be emotionally worked through. People who are genuinly bipolar need medication or they are very likely to self harm at some point attempting to end their depression. Not everyone who is sad or depressed is bipolar and the meds can cause more harm than good for those people.

[Pops]

I think the the problem is the Ideological Silo, the internet, 24 hour news, and especially politicians ginning up panic and stoking devisiveness. You can't say the POTUS is an Evil Muslim that hates you for your freedom, over and over and over without it having an effect. People are being terrified, intentionally, by the very people who are supposed to show calm and steadiness because panic furthers their power.

I mentioned elsewhere/earlier that the gun-murder rate has fallen by half since 1980 yet gun sales are booming because... evil dems are coming to take them away and not only that, they are willfully holding the door open to terrorists.

But, its a crock of shit, just another talking point. This is from Wired a couple years ago,

Since 9/11,... 33 Americans have died as a result of terrorism launched by their Muslim neighbors. During that period, 180,000 Americans were murdered for reasons unrelated to terrorism.

So if there is underreporting of terra, double the number, heck, multiply the number by 10 and you still fall short of the number of kids killed by guns. At least 60-something every year.

But no one gets all excited about that. Not one thread on dead kids on po.com in a dozen years.

I'm not sure why, perhaps because most of those kids look just like us (or the class below), lots probably died playing with daddy's gun, or because daddy was. Terrorist Muslims on the other hand look different. so


But here is the real danger:

Law enforcement, including “informants and undercover agents,” were involved in “almost all of the Muslim-American terrorism plots uncovered in 2012,” the Triangle team finds. That’s in keeping with the FBI’s recent practice of using undercover or double agents to encourage would-be terrorists to act on their violent desires and arresting them when they do — a practice critics say comes perilously close to entrapment.

The only reason that can't happen to you is you don't happen to be in the out group, at the moment. But if you allow it, encourage it, institutionalize it you will be, eventually.

[Newfie]

That's why the gun debate is a dead end. The causes that lead to gun deaths are varied and complex. They have guns in common but behind that there is a host of societal problems we are not even beginning to address.

Nor will we ever. It's not unlike the climate change circuis going on in Paris. Climate change is not the problem. Humanities inability to live a sustainable life is the problem. No one is discussing that, not in a true macro sense, just wee bits and pieces around the edges.

Wanna talk about crazies on the loose? Economist! the whole crowd are in lala land and terribly dangerous.

[Pops]

Not talking about guns per se, but about the willful disregard of civil liberties in the name of security at all cost.

[Tanada]

Not talking about guns per se, but about the willful disregard of civil liberties in the name of security at all cost.

I also worry about the erosion of our civil liberties, but from my point of view the encroachment is from both left and right. Some (not all) on the left despise my 1st, 2nd, and 10th amendment rights, some (not all) on the right despise my 1st, 5th and 6th amendment rights. The way I see it both sides should just back off and let us live in peace, but it doesn't seem like either is willing to do that.

[Cog]

Apparently several Wal-Marts in Missouri have reported mass purchases of cell phones by Muslim men in the last week. Johnnie Jihad is up to something. What is interesting is that purchases are always very early in the morning, in rural Missouri Wal-Marts, and in cash. Perhaps these are Christmas gifts but I doubt you are going to like what is in the package.

If these guys would have been smarter, they would have spread their purchases out over several days and at variable hours so you don't get the same cashier. Now they are on the FBI's radar so hopefully someone is watching them.

More at story link:

http://fox4kc.com/2015/12/09/multiple-c ... uspicions/

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — In less than a week, law enforcement agencies in three different Missouri cities have investigated the purchase of large quantities of cell phones at Walmart stores. In two cases, the Federal Bureau of Investigation was contacted.

[Cog]

So the governor of Connecticut, unhappy because the federal legislature won't pass a bill banning people on the no-fly list from buying guns, has taken it up as a state matter. He wants the federal database so he can ban people on it from buying guns in Connecticut. Never mind due process considerations of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment. he knows better. By all means, lets just ban people from buying a gun based on suspicion alone, based upon a database that no one knows they are on and there is no way of getting off of. Real smart governor. Expect some lawsuits coming your way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/11/nyreg ... .html?_r=0

With the mass shooting in California last week focusing attention on terrorism and guns, Gov. Dannel P. Malloy of Connecticut announced on Thursday that he would sign an executive order that would bar people on federal terrorism watch lists from buying firearms in the state.

“Like all Americans, I have been horrified by the recent terrorist attacks in San Bernardino and Paris,” said Mr. Malloy, a Democrat. “This should be a wake-up call to all of us. This is a moment to seize in America — and today I’m here to say that we in Connecticut are seizing it.”

[Cog]

As a follow-up to the story above. Cape Girardeau, Jackson, and Jefferson City in Missouri have all had mass purchases of cell phones by Muslim men at area Wal-Marts. That brings the number of mass purchases up to six separate incidents in one week. Purchases were early in the morning, in cash, by a small group of Muslim men.

Christmas gifts anyone? I'm thinking not.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/12/10/ ... -missouri/

I hope political correctness doesn't keep the FBI from monitoring this situation.

[Cog]

After further reflection, these Muslims would have to be incredibly stupid to be doing this. It is very clumsy and guaranteed to put you on FBI surveillance. Not saying its impossible for them to be stupid just seems like some misdirection. So that while the FBI focuses on them, the real group of jihadists are planning something else under the radar so to speak. Guess we will find out when something goes boom. Then of course Obama will want to ban guns from white Christian males since we are the real threat.