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When will we know that we have peaked?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

When will we know that we have peaked?

Unread postby smiley » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 16:30:14

In another thread I’ve been looking at the production of Mexico and the giant Cantarell field (2.3 mbd) for a while. This week the EIA has confirmed that the field and thus the whole of Mexico has peaked in 2004. IMO this is potentially the biggest news of the year. The no. 2 supplier of oil to the US has peaked.

But I find interesting is the way this has been reported over time. I have collected some quotes from the different IEA reports.

June 2002

Mexican crude oil production is projected to peak at 4.1 mb/d around 2010. Production will remain flat for about a decade, and then decline sharply, reaching 2.7 mb/d in 2030. New discoveries will not compensate for the decline in production from the large mature fields, such as Cantarell. Net exports of crude oil and products are expected to decline even more quickly than production, as domestic demand will continue to grow. By the third decade of the Outlook period, Mexico will become a net
importer of crude oil (Figure 4.14).


March 2004 (most probably the time of the peak)

Mexico – March actual: March crude production was largely unchanged from February’s 3.4 mb/d while NGL production gained 15 kb/d on the month, reaching 450 kb/d. Government sources put exports at a remarkably constant 1.86 mb/d for the 11th straight month. Heavy/sour Maya export volumes again gained in prominence as they have done since November. February’s 70 kb/d of exports to the Far East and non-specified destinations dried up in favour of sales into the Americas.

Energy Ministry proposals for a change in the tax regime affecting state producer Pemex recommend curbing government take from new development projects. It is suggested that this will be counterbalanced by higher oil and gas production overall, maintaining state revenues, one third of which derives from receipts from Pemex.


December 2004

Mexico – December actual: Crude production fell by 140 kb/d in December to average 3.22 mb/d, the lowest level since late-2002. This unscheduled drop is assumed to have been due to a temporary outage affecting the Cantarell field, source of the bulk of Mexico’s heavy Maya crude which took the bulk of December’s fall. However, exports remained unaffected by the fall in production, rising 25 kb/d to 1.98 mb/d, as sales out of storage rose to compensate.


May 2005

Pemex sources have again suggested the imminent onset of decline at the Cantarell oilfield which accounts for 65% of Mexican crude output. New field development projects intended to replace this decline are believed unlikely to contribute before 2006. With decline in production evident since mid-2004, even allowing for some recovery from low March levels, Mexican supply has been revised down for 2005. Crude output is now seen declining by 30 kb/d to 3.35 mb/d this year while NGL supply is held flat at 440 kb/d.


June 2005

State oil company Pemex has conceded that baseload Cantarell production is now in decline . With new field start-ups several months away at least, and potentially insufficient in scale to fully counteract Cantarell slippage, there is scant hope of increasing supply in 2005.


What you see is that up to the very moment of the peak the attitude is still very optimistic. They are talking about production increase even at the exact moment that production is tipping. Then you have a short period of: “Hey something is wrong here, what is happening?”. And then within a year the attitude has shifted to negativism: ”They have peaked and there is nothing that can be done about it”. “There are no big finds around the horizon”.

I expected them to stall the announcement as long as possible. One year seems very short.

Would it go the same for the world peak? In that case we would have certainty within a year after passing the peak.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 16:37:40

Thanks a lot for the analysis, smiley! Great work, very interesting!
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Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 17:39:37

The problem is it's very very hard to hide something like the production numbers of oil. It's watched like a hawk by millions of investors. So What you could do is have "temporary" declines that are preannounced because you're working on infrastructure or something but anything other then that usually is a giveaway that something is up.

About all that you can easily lie about is the amount in the ground. I'm still not sure why the CEO's aren't strung up when they make these massive insane comments about reserves that then prove to be amazingly hopeful guesses at best, outright lies at worst.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Unread postby Leanan » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 18:25:32

Good work, and good point.

Interesting that it was projected to peak in 2010. Unbridled optimism? Marketing B.S.? Or a flaw in the understanding of decline?

Simmons says that when you use high-tech methods to extract oil, the decline is much sharper. Also, that the total amount of oil extracted is actually reduced. He claims that this was a surprise to the experts. (Indeed, this is still controversial. Many oil industry types insist that high-tech methods increase, not decrease, the total amount of oil extracted.)

It does seem that when information is known, decline is usually sharper and earlier than predicted.
Last edited by Leanan on Tue 28 Jun 2005, 19:10:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby bruin » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 18:42:02

I can't believe Mexico isn't getting a ton of attention either. This is much bigger news then what China is up to right now for the USA.

We get about equal amounts of oil from Saudi Arabia as we do Mexico.
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Unread postby MicroHydro » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 19:57:05

bruin wrote:I can't believe Mexico isn't getting a ton of attention either. This is much bigger news then what China is up to right now for the USA.

We get about equal amounts of oil from Saudi Arabia as we do Mexico.


The difference is that Mexico is well understood to be a geological event. With the middle east, there is a fantasy that production plateaus are either due to quotas or refusal to accept western investment/technology. The talking point is that western invasion/conquest could increase production.
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
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Unread postby pup55 » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 20:12:51

Maybe someone motivated will start to track the statements of the OPEC oil ministers in the same way.

Then when we get the surprise, we will be able to look back and see the turning point.

For now, when they start saying stuff like "unexplained technical difficulties" you can start being suspicious.

Come to think of it, that's what they are saying about iraq right now.....
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Unread postby MD » Tue 28 Jun 2005, 23:40:57

An excellent popst that deserves a lot of attention.
Demonstrates IEA lack of credibility and tendency to the optimistic.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Unread postby Eli » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 00:25:35

Well the signs are already there that SA may be in decline right now.

The oil that SA has brought to market is heavy sour crude not light sweet crude. The current thinking is that they are going to be the ones that ramp up production to double what their numbers are now. That being the case you'd think they could increase their light sweet crude production by 1.5 mbd but they can't.

They can't produce more than they are now and their oil ministers are walking around saying crazy things like "SA has enough oil for the world for a hundred years" that is just an insane delusional statement. The more they say "we have got plenty of oil" the closer they are to running out and going into decline. Ten years ago everyone knew SA had tons of Oil now people are not so sure.
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Unread postby strider3700 » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 02:01:35

enough oil for the entire world for 100 years eh?

so assuming 0 growth, lets just say it's 84,000,000 barrels/day each day for the next 100 years

thats 3,066,000,000,000 or just over 3 trillion barrels of oil still in the ground. at $50/barrel thats 150 trillion dollars worth of oil in the ground. thats about 3 years worth of the entire worlds GDP. anyways spread over 100 years that is saudi arabia making 1.5 trillion in oil sales each year. so since the states buys 1/4 of the oil on the market at the moment that means they will be giving SA 375 billion yearly for the next 100 years. The US spends 370 billion each year on the military.

If the saudi aren't lying they will be liberated in short order.

as an aside why doesn't the cia facts page
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/us.html
have data on oil imports and exports from the states?
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Unread postby Zentric » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 02:24:55

I can see the powers morphing this mostly-geological event of oil depletion into a political/economic crisis. The reason for our troubles will never be about the world running out of plentiful oil. Instead, it'll be about this hurricane, or that oil refinery, or despicable haters of our freedom who menace our production or shipping routes. And it would be those very same haters of freedom who we'd pursue, putting us back into a foreign conquest mode - as alluded to in MicroHydro's talking point.

You know, since oil shortages are all but inevitable, why wouldn't the powers (e.g. attendees of Cheney's Energy Taskforce) have free rein to do whatever they want with the supply of energy?

What's the cooperation for without the reward?

Just ramblings, I'm afraid :wink: .
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Unread postby Battle_Scarred_Galactico » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 06:46:07

Great thread, a good indication of things to come I think.
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Unread postby smiley » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 19:46:42

Maybe someone motivated will start to track the statements of the OPEC oil ministers in the same way.

Then when we get the surprise, we will be able to look back and see the turning point.


I don't think there will be much to track. I mean, they still haven't acknowledged the fact that Indonesia has peaked. Even this year they have raised its production quota.

OPEC has become a complete farce. Its latest statements remind me of those of good old Bagdad Bob. I suspect that they will be promishing more oil until hell freezes over.
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Unread postby pup55 » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 20:52:41

You're probably right.

Instead, maybe there should be a counter someplace that keeps track of how many times OPEC announces that it is going to raise its production by 500,000 bpd.
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Unread postby Doly » Thu 30 Jun 2005, 05:24:58

According to that theory, we must be peaking pretty much now.
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Unread postby Sys1 » Thu 30 Jun 2005, 05:51:21

Those events suit well to Olduvai theory.
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Unread postby smiley » Mon 04 Jul 2005, 14:52:04

I find it pretty amazing that this news did not receive any attention at all in the media. Everyone is looking at the US oil stocks with a magnifying glass, but when one of the main suppliers to the US peaks it does not register at all.

Even Campbell did not mention it in his newsletter, even though he received much criticism on calling the peak on Mexico. This is his chance to pay them back.
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