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Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 13 Jul 2015, 23:54:16

The compostablity of PLA is only an advantage if people separate waste and compost it, or have access to a composting facility.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:25:25

dissident wrote: We do not have GM crops for the sake of GM as in selective breeding and better characteristics through gene manipulation. We have GM crops designed to tolerate high levels of glyphosate. This is poison.

Monsanto and the industrial agriculture corporations can shove their "high" yields up their collective anus. These are "high" yields of nutritionally deficient and toxic chemical laden garbage. As has been posted in the autism thread, persistent use of glyphosate results in the doubling (and higher) of water use for growing these "high" yield crops. There is no techno miracle here, but a lame hack.

There are also GM crops for heat resistance, drought resistance, and to help the very poor (like rice that doesn't require cooking).

But let's not talk about that. Let's make stuff up or repeat unproven stuff on the web (like that glyphosate causes autism), and pretend like because it has been "posted" it's a fact. :roll:

Snopes says it's unproven. http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/glyphosate.asp

Notably, both Seneff and AutismOne appear to reject the accepted findings of science on the heretofore not fully understood causes of autism, namely in terms of genetics.


The article conflated a number of unrelated claims and beliefs about autism and its causes, jumping from pesticides to vaccines and back again in the course of its travels.


So the same article the nonsense about autism and glyphosate is in also gets into the nonsensical "vaccines cause autism" claim, for which there is no evidence. (But we DO know that vaccines are effective against spreading of many terrible diseases. So spreading such nonsense actually is causing a lot of harm as such diseases resurface in places with low vaccine coverage).

Why don't you just tell us purple unicorns told us to hate Monsanto? That would be just as valid. Or you could just state that you hate Monsanto and GM foods and refuse to eat them. At least that would be honest.

Or in your book is trying to adapt to climate change and feeding people who would otherwise be at more risk of starvation a bad thing?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:36:56

Shaved Monkey wrote:
Withnail wrote:As long as it's labelled so I can choose not to buy it, I'm good.

If they have to label them or control the wind borne spread of pollen throughout the environment, as it crosses properties and infects organic farms and makes them lose their status. they would go bankrupt
But they have good lawyers and powerful friends
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/wa-or ... zrr1d.html

I agree that they should be labelled. Naturally industry resists this (profit maximization), but how would requiring labeling make them go bankrupt any more than forcing McDonalds to post comprehensive nutrition info. on their entire menu would bankrupt them? (It would reduce profits for both, as some consumers would avoid the food if better informed).

The issue of environmental contamination is one of the more rational concerns about GM's, IMO. Government won't support strong measures to prevent that, just like it won't support things like much stronger measures to prevent pollution or AGW -- due to cost. How is this unique or special to Monsanto? Look at all the passes the fossil fuel industry gets.

I'm not saying this is OK. I'm saying that in the realm of regulatory passes by our bought-and-paid-for government, GM foods are in NO way a special or unique case.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 14:29:07

pstarr wrote:"(like rice that doesn't require cooking). "
Monsanto also released an associated genetic modification for it target market audience, called the terminator gene, where the participating population is modified so the stomach itself doesn't digest anything at all. It was a bad bad marketing program. Lost the consumer base.


But it made Skynet very very happy.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 15:21:51

'like rice that doesn't require cooking'

Maybe they'll next genetically modify cows so they don't require slaughtering and cooking! Just wander by and take a nice juicy bite out of a cow 'flank' as it continues to placidly graze... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 15:30:04

I thought the Terminator was named Arnold, not Gene!! :lol: :lol:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... HgodhH0BzA
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 18:26:59

I think a lot of the anti-GMO activism is smoke and mirrors.

Their websites get very little traffic, but there is definitely a lot of content spamming to improve their search engine visibility. Anywhere there is an article on GMOs there will be lots of comments saying "Hey look at this other site over there." And that other site is almost always an anti-vaxxer site. It seems as if the anti-vaxxers are using anti-GMO spam to send traffic to their anti-vaxxer sites. And often the anti-GMO "experts" are also anti-vaxxers, it's just that nobody bothers to do the google search to find out. And then of course the people that post this stream of anti-vaxxer spam are the first one to call other people a "shill." Well it looks like a lot these "activists" are really "black hat SEO" scam artists who are getting paid to increase the page rank of anti-vaxxer sites. Of course, it would make if sense if the people yelling "shills" are the real paid shills.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 19:04:59

dohboi wrote:'like rice that doesn't require cooking'

Maybe they'll next genetically modify cows so they don't require slaughtering and cooking! Just wander by and take a nice juicy bite out of a cow 'flank' as it continues to placidly graze... :lol: :lol:

So are you implying I just made that point up? (There IS this thing called 'the internet' where such things can be searched on). A 5 second Google search on 'rice doesn't need cooking' yielded this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 88718.html

The article I remember reading on this was based on this rice. I was wrong thinking that it was a GM product. It is a standard hybridization, and as of 2009 was being tested.

Experts at the Central Rice Research Institute (CRRI) in Orissa who have developed the grain were inspired by so-called soft rice, or komal saul, that grows in the north-east Indian state of Assam. Traditional recipes call for such rice to be soaked overnight in water, then eaten with mustard oil and onions.

Until now, these low-yielding grains have not grown outside the north-east, but the scientists at CRRI have managed to develop a hybrid of a traditional soft rice with a high-yielding variety of regular rice. The result has been called Aghunibora.

(Blue font above mine, for emphasis).

Now, a quick search on the original rice, called Komal Saul, and we see this on Wiki, 2nd item under Jolpan (1.2 in the contents).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolpan

Kumol saul is a unique type of rice from Assam that can be eaten without cooking. It is rendered fluffy and edible by being soaked in water for a short time. The rice may be eaten with milk or curd, jaggery, yogurt after being immersed in warm water for just fifteen minutes or so.

So no, you don't need to joke about magic cows. Just a bit of searching, or just ask.
Last edited by Outcast_Searcher on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 19:15:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 19:11:57

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
dohboi wrote:'like rice that doesn't require cooking'

Maybe they'll next genetically modify cows so they don't require slaughtering and cooking! Just wander by and take a nice juicy bite out of a cow 'flank' as it continues to placidly graze... :lol: :lol:


So are you implying I just made that point up? (There IS this thing called 'the internet' where such things can be searched on). A 5 second Google search on 'rice doesn't need cooking' yielded this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 88718.html

The article I remember reading on this was based on this rice. I was wrong thinking that it was a GM product. It is a standard hybridization, and as of 2009 was being tested.

Experts at the Central Rice Research Institute (CRRI) in Orissa who have developed the grain were inspired by so-called soft rice, or komal saul, that grows in the north-east Indian state of Assam. Traditional recipes call for such rice to be soaked overnight in water, then eaten with mustard oil and onions.

Until now, these low-yielding grains have not grown outside the north-east, but the scientists at CRRI have managed to develop a hybrid of a traditional soft rice with a high-yielding variety of regular rice. The result has been called Aghunibora.


Unfortunately, searching on Aghunibora is only showing me 2009 references pointing back to the same organization. So apparently this hasn't gone very far. Starving people probably don't make a highly lucrative market. :roll:

So excuse me for getting a detail wrong, but I'm not just making stuff up.



Actually if you soak even normal rice for half an hour or so before cooking it cooks in no time. Lots less energy needed.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 19:22:05

Withnail wrote:Actually if you soak even normal rice for half an hour or so before cooking it cooks in no time. Lots less energy needed.

Good tip. Being a bachelor who can barely run a microwave, I rarely stray from basic recipes. This makes sense though, as most of microwave cooking of rice is getting the water to be absorbed by the rice -- at least as far as I can tell.

Does this affect the texture much? That possibility and the extra time involved are the only reasonable objections to the soaking that come to mind.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 19:40:08

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Withnail wrote:Actually if you soak even normal rice for half an hour or so before cooking it cooks in no time. Lots less energy needed.

Good tip. Being a bachelor who can barely run a microwave, I rarely stray from basic recipes. This makes sense though, as most of microwave cooking of rice is getting the water to be absorbed by the rice -- at least as far as I can tell.

Does this affect the texture much? That possibility and the extra time involved are the only reasonable objections to the soaking that come to mind.


Becomes a bit more fluffy, pilau rice style.

if you prefer it firm, just soak it for half the time. It'll still cook much quicker.

All you need for rice if you soak it first is bring it to a boil on high gas for a couple of minutes, turn it down low for a couple of minutes, then turn the gas off and put a lid on for 10 minutes.

You normally need half an inch of water over the rice. But if you soak it most of that will already be gone.
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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 20:17:54

dohboi wrote:'like rice that doesn't require cooking'

Maybe they'll next genetically modify cows so they don't require slaughtering and cooking! Just wander by and take a nice juicy bite out of a cow 'flank' as it continues to placidly graze... :lol: :lol:


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Re: Genetically Modified Food Pt. 1 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 23:36:45

OS: "you don't need to joke"

Heaven forbid anyone should ever make a joke on any of these forums!! :lol: :lol:

Nice cartoon, PS.

Yeah, soak the rice over night, then just bring it to boil, turn of the heat, and cover it with a towel. Very, very little active use of fuel needed to cook rice, even brown rise. A solution to a non-existent problem. And of course, one could heat that rice with a very simple, cheap solar cooker, too. A pressure cooker will really get the job done quickly, too.

Ahhh, but nobody stands to make a gagillion dollars from any of these low-tech, common sense things, so we have to come up with rice that's already mush on the plant...thank the Lord that now some international corporation that already has more money than God will be able to make even more gobs ofmoney. YEAH!

/snark

(Uhoh, does that count a joke? I forgot that jokes have been banished from these forums by the Great And Powerful OS!! I must fall on your mercy!! :lol: :lol: :lol: )
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Re: Is GMO and man-made food our best future option?

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 01 Sep 2015, 20:13:03

Growing Doubt: a Scientist’s Experience of GMOs
Many Bt crops are “stacked,” meaning they contain a multiplicity of these Cry toxins. Their makers believe each of these Bt toxins is insect-specific and safe. However, there are multiple reasons to doubt both safety and specificity. One concern is that Bacillus thuringiensis is all but indistinguishable from the well known anthrax bacterium (Bacillus anthracis). Another reason is that Bt insecticides share structural similarities with ricin. Ricin is a famously dangerous plant toxin, a tiny amount of which was used to assassinate the Bulgarian writer and defector Georgi Markov in 1978.
...
Two years ago, the GMO safety agency of the European Union (EFSA) discovered that both the CaMV promoter and the FMV promoter had wrongly been assumed by them (for almost 20 years) not to encode any proteins. In fact, the two promoters encode a large part of a small multifunctional viral protein that misdirects all normal gene expression and that also turns off a key plant defence against pathogens. EFSA tried to bury their discovery. Unfortunately for them, we spotted their findings in an obscure scientific journal. This revelation forced EFSA and other regulators to explain why they had overlooked the probability that consumers were eating an untested viral protein.
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Re: Is GMO and man-made food our best future option?

Unread postby dissident » Tue 01 Sep 2015, 21:40:33

Keith_McClary wrote:Growing Doubt: a Scientist’s Experience of GMOs
Many Bt crops are “stacked,” meaning they contain a multiplicity of these Cry toxins. Their makers believe each of these Bt toxins is insect-specific and safe. However, there are multiple reasons to doubt both safety and specificity. One concern is that Bacillus thuringiensis is all but indistinguishable from the well known anthrax bacterium (Bacillus anthracis). Another reason is that Bt insecticides share structural similarities with ricin. Ricin is a famously dangerous plant toxin, a tiny amount of which was used to assassinate the Bulgarian writer and defector Georgi Markov in 1978.
...
Two years ago, the GMO safety agency of the European Union (EFSA) discovered that both the CaMV promoter and the FMV promoter had wrongly been assumed by them (for almost 20 years) not to encode any proteins. In fact, the two promoters encode a large part of a small multifunctional viral protein that misdirects all normal gene expression and that also turns off a key plant defence against pathogens. EFSA tried to bury their discovery. Unfortunately for them, we spotted their findings in an obscure scientific journal. This revelation forced EFSA and other regulators to explain why they had overlooked the probability that consumers were eating an untested viral protein.


Nice to see some real science and not the usual bleating "everything is fine, don't worry be happy" from amateur gardeners and industry shills.
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