[ROCKMAN]

Simon - "Why should one country have the right to stop another country delivering whatever it wants"? The simple unwritten rule: Might makes right. If the offended party can't retaliate against the offender then the offender has the "right" to do what they think is the "justifiable course of action". The same reason Hitler had the "right" to invade Poland, the “right” for the allies to bomb the civilians in Dresden, Japan’s “right” to attach Pearl Harbor, the US “right” to nuke Japan and invade Iraq, etc. etc.

The basic unwritten rule defining "moral actions" taken against one group by another since the dawn of mankind: the winners WRITE the history books.

[KaiserJeep]

Well there was that time an American missile cruiser shot down an Iranian airliner full of civilians over the Persian Gulf.

I happen to know a little about that one, a co-worker was XO of one of the other US Navy vessels in the area, during the first Gulf War.

The then-current rules of engagement allowed missile firing after the aircraft was identified by radar transponder as hostile. The Iranian Air Wing of US-made F-14's shared the same runways as the civilian airliners. They took off and landed in concert with the huge AirBus airliners to avoid being shot down by using them for cover - and everybody knew this. A pair of Persian F-14's took off right behind and just far enough outside the airliner's wings to avoid turbulence. When one of them crossed between the missile cruiser USS Vincennes and the airliner just as they entered the radar space a few hundred feet above ground, it masked the airliner's radar transponder with it's own which identified it as a hostile F-14. At the time, USS Vincennes was in the midst of a battle with approximately eight hostile gunboats and an unknown number of hostile aircraft - which soon included the two F-14's after takeoff.

The CO of the USS Vincennes was canned, the ship itself was demoted to picket duty elsewhere in the war, and the rules of engagement for US forces changed to require positive visual ID of an aircraft. The USA paid $61.8M in compensation to the relatives of the victims in an International court. Later USS Vincennes was scrapped at the relatively young age of 20 years as part of the general fleet drawdown following the Cold War, while other Aegis cruisers remained in service. But sailors are a superstitious lot, and the ship was considered unlucky following the airliner incident, even though it distinguished itself several times after that first war.

PS: It was common practice by the Persian fighter pilots to take off in concert with an airliner, then turn off their radar transponders as they left the controlled airspace and tuck up under the larger planes wings and fly while their own radar returns were obscured by the larger plane. Then as they approached the battle area, to "surprise" the Americans by suddenly attacking from the airliner's closest approach to the battle area. This probably worked once, but they stuck with the tactic until by the end of the war, they only had two F-14's left, which were sold to China and Russia, just as we bought several MIGs and other Soviet planes for evaluation and developing counter-tactics. The Iranians had only the export version of the plane, not the same specs as US front line aircraft.

[Tanada]

PS: It was common practice by the Persian fighter pilots to take off in concert with an airliner, then turn off their radar transponders as they left the controlled airspace and tuck up under the larger planes wings and fly while their own radar returns were obscured by the larger plane. Then as they approached the battle area, to "surprise" the Americans by suddenly attacking from the airliner's closest approach to the battle area. This probably worked once, but they stuck with the tactic until by the end of the war, they only had two F-14's left, which were sold to China and Russia, just as we bought several MIGs and other Soviet planes for evaluation and developing counter-tactics. The Iranians had only the export version of the plane, not the same specs as US front line aircraft.

As an addendum some years ago every F-14 still in the navy inventory was flown to the scrap yard, stripped of engines and electronics and then chopped up in the open where Russian satellites were able to record and count as it happened.

https://youtu.be/9W7pph9KhYY

[Simon_R]

Hi Rockman

Pretty much what I was driving at (if somewhat obliquely).

might is right

In a conversation between us grownups, tossing labels like 'piracy' around doesn't help.

Simon

[ROCKMAN]

Simon - As one might say: one man's pirate is another man's freedom fighter. And the winner will eventually record one version or the other.