[Graeme]

For the American viewers, thought you might be interested in this:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/200 ... show_x.htm

[aldente]

That particular guy in your link was a real turn-off:

[Graeme]

Albente, never mind the advertisements, did you read the article? USA Today like everybody else has to make a living.

[MicroHydro]

Graeme,

Here is a riddle. In the US, you can get a Prius for only 2000 USD more than a Civic Hybrid. But in NZ, a Prius is 43,000 NZD and a Civic Hybrid is 33,000 NZD. Why the 10,000 NZD difference? For some reason, the Prius is waaay overpriced in NZ.

I have to admit, I am thinking of getting a Daihatsu Copen. It uses 6.4 liters of petrol per 100km, without the complexity of the hybrid dual drivetrain and batteries.

[savethehumans]

For some reason, the Prius is waaay overpriced in NZ.

Um, NZ doesn't have the subsidies that the US has? OR the same political influence the US has in Japan? Just wildly guessing here. . . .

[Optimist]

I believe the future of transportation is the same old internal combustion engine, running on green, renewable diesel, see http://www.engr.wisc.edu/news/headlines/2005/Jun02.html and http://changingworldtech.com/ Why rebuild the entire fuel network, if you can blend in the fuel of the future at any convenient rate, without anybody noticing?

Hydrogen is a lot of hot air. 200 years from now (like 100 years ago) they will still be talking about the "hydrogen economy" being 20, maybe 30 years down the line. GM management is again showing their inability to make a coherent decision.

[cube]

Albente, never mind the advertisements, did you read the article? USA Today like everybody else has to make a living.

Five years ago if someone told me that one day in the future the average "respectable" news website would have more ads then a porno site I never would of believed them.

What little do I know about making predictions.

I find the news article to be a little inaccurate. Why are so many people calling hybrids expensive? I remember back when California passed the ill fated zero emission standard and the first electric cars rolled into the car dealerships. All the left wing wacko news reporters in California were preaching about how this is going to be the future. No news reporter (at least not in "liberal" California) dared mock the ridiculous price tag of a car that costed double but could only deliver half the performance if even that.

But now with hybrids costing maybe 20% more there's no shortage of "news" reporters boldly claiming this is too expensive. Do I smell a little bit of hypocracy here?

[Graeme]

Thank you optimist. I appreciate your comment. But do you think that the President will introduce a tax on gasoline so that diesel will be cheaper like in Europe? Diesel-fuel vehicles are in hot demand in Europe for this reason.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic8808.html

Cube, yes I also detect some hypocrisy. Even the President is promoting hydrids.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic8837.html

Is this really for the consumers benefit?

[Optimist]

Graeme,
I doubt that the President will be that brave. It looks like the US will take a different route than Europe. In a best case scenario the US would end up with Brazilian "flex fuel" technology (relying on ethanol) while Europe ends up with green diesel and biodiesel technology. I would say that the European route looks more promising, but hey, at least this way both technologies get developed. Having alternatives is always important.

At least they are cleaning up diesel some - http://www.wastenews.com/headlines2.html?id=1119042217

[The_Toecutter]

I find the news article to be a little inaccurate. Why are so many people calling hybrids expensive? I remember back when California passed the ill fated zero emission standard and the first electric cars rolled into the car dealerships. All the left wing wacko news reporters in California were preaching about how this is going to be the future. No news reporter (at least not in "liberal" California) dared mock the ridiculous price tag of a car that costed double but could only deliver half the performance if even that.

Careful there. You have to keep in mind that:

a) those electric cars were at the time hand-assembled
b) their MSRPfrom the big automakers was placed as to represent what it would take to immediately recover all development costs within the first year of production under a mass production scenario. Normal gas cars don't have this done to them, otherwise they too would cost in excess of $60,000+ for their first model year from introduction. Meanwhile, small companies like Green Motor Works and AC Propulsion were hand-assembling EVs that were cost competitive with mass-produced ICE cars of similar acceleration performance. Think of what mass production could have done.
c) half the performance? Which performance parameters are you defining? EVs have an acceleration advantage over gas cars, producing peak torque at 0 rpm. The EVs that were slow(ie. that piece of shit, Ford Think) were due to a poor choice of drive system for a performance application, not the technology itself. OTOH, the GM EV1 could out accelerate a Corvette from 0-30 mph, and could do 0-60 in < 8 seconds(Corvette would have done overtaken it by this point), which for its time was better than 95% of the cars on the road. Range? Solectria's Force with NiMH batteries could do 200 miles per charge highway speeds, which was very close to the 250-450 miles demanded of gas cars on a full tank. Solectria's Sunrise, which in prototype quanities cost $100k, could nearly do 400 miles per charge, although poor choice of drive system that didn't use the full power potential of the batteries(150 horsepower or so potential, but it only used like 50 of that) made it dog slow.

[Graeme]

Toecutter, I'm really impressed by your credentials and your enthusiasm. However, I think I agree with optimist that for the vast majority of Americans, ethanol is likely to be the alternative fuel for you in the short term because it is cheaper. EV's will come later.

See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8262015/

Brazil biofuel strategy pays off as gas prices soar

Adapting cars to pure ethanol can be done relatively inexpensively by adding a fuel sensor and corrosion-resistant hoses.

But over the past 12 months, 160 million gallons of the Brazilian product still entered the country (USA).

Drivers in parts of Minnesota were paying $1.59 for a gallon of E85, compared with $1.99 for regular gasoline.