[Plantagenet]

Hi Plant.

.... A socialist government can improve the quality of life for the majority
Simon

Its a nice idea, but in practice it does't tend to work that way.

There are two clear examples of this. Take two countries, and divide them in half. Both halves of each country have the exact same people and similar resources. Make one half of each country socialist and one half capitalist. Come back after 40 years and see which system works best.

Compare West Germany (Capitalist) and East Germany (Socialist)

or

Compare South Korea (Capitalist) versus North Korea (Socialist)

In both cases Socialism produced centralized power in a dictatorship, with concomitant loss of human rights and freedoms. In both cases the majority of people did much worse economically under Socialism then under Capitalism.

North Korea is a basket case, where periodic famines and prison camps are the rule. East Germany did better, but lagged far behind West Germany before reunification. I've never travelled to North Korea, but I visited East Germany when it was socialist---and travelling from capitalist West Germany to East Germany under socialism was an amazing experience....there was no comparison in the two societies. Capitalism, for all its flaws, works far better.

The riots in Venezuela show young people rebelling against the socialist goverment of Maduro because human rights are being curtailed and the economy is going south due to socialism and mismanagement.

I wish the youth of Venezuela good luck in their courageous protests against Maduro and socialismo, but I fear that country is well on its way to being another Cuba or North Korea.

[Simon_R]

Hi Plant

I actually said

A socialist government can improve the quality of life for the majority (Can not Will) when there is a nice pot of cash

its the Can not Will bit .... the devil is in the detail

there are examples (france in the 70's etc etc) of socialist countries making peoples lives better (although please don't look up mitterands effect on our national debt)

[Plantagenet]

there are examples (france in the 70's etc etc) of socialist countries making peoples lives better (although please don't look up mitterands effect on our national debt)

Bonjour Simon

I agree with you that France is a lovely country. I just spent a month there over the xmas holidays, mostly in Paris and along the Cote d Azur.

However, France isn't a socialist country. France is a capitalist country.

[Simon_R]

Hi Plant.

Gotta fly now, but you are right, I used up 7 years in the USA, and the similarities are startling, it does surprise me how many people think we are died in the wool socialists.

however there are differences, that run deep (attitudes rather than action).

I guess the issue is that there are degrees of socialism and degrees of capitalism, so its back to viewpoints again.

I used to be a died in the wool socialist, but now am apparently further to the right than Genghis khan, I don't see it myself.

[Keith_McClary]

Air Canada suspends flights to Venezuela as protests continue

"Due to ongoing civil unrest in Venezuela, Air Canada can no longer ensure the safety of its operation and has suspended flights to Caracas until further notice," the airline said in a statement on its website."
...
In a part of the capital, peaceful daily protests have devolved each afternoon into violent clashes with tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannon and Molotov cocktails.

Only a small segment of the demonstrators stick around for the skirmishes, but the damage wreaked by an even smaller subgroup has been highly publicized on state television.

[PrestonSturges]

Hmmm...the government motorcycle militias have been using pistols against protesting students. No telling what an escalation would look like. Street warfare? Death squads?

[pana_burda]

What lies underneath is the deepening in the cubanization of our lives.
http://youtu.be/FegYvKvpQMM

[Beery1]

A [capitalist] government can improve the quality of life for the majority (Can not Will) when there is a nice pot of cash, as I see it one of the problems of [capitalism], is that the system does not work when the pot starts to get depleted... if the oil was loverly and gushing out of the ground with a huge EROEI then all would be well, however as the number start to fail, so does the government.

See what I did there?

The thing is, Simon_R, it works the other way around too, as we will likely find out when our EROEI gets as low as it is in Venezuela. Capitalism is no less fragile than socialism, as we will undoubtedly find out when the time comes.

[Quinny]

Agree to a certain extent Beery, but downsizing requires co-operation and sch co-operation cannot be applied in a capitalist society.

I remember as a young man in discussions at University several of us were happy to earn the median wage or less if the world was moving towards parity. The movement in the opposite direction lead many to drop such ideals.

[pana_burda]

Air Canada suspends flights to Venezuela as protests continue

"Due to ongoing civil unrest in Venezuela, Air Canada can no longer ensure the safety of its operation and has suspended flights to Caracas until further notice," the airline said in a statement on its website."
...
In a part of the capital, peaceful daily protests have devolved each afternoon into violent clashes with tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannon and Molotov cocktails.

Only a small segment of the demonstrators stick around for the skirmishes, but the damage wreaked by an even smaller subgroup has been highly publicized on state television.

Great example here how the media lies to the people abroad of our borders. The real reason for most international airlines to get the hell out is a huge .... UNPAYABLE debt this gvmnt, and the "previous" one, have accumulated with them over the years.

[url]http://www.elmundo.com.ve/noticias/actualidad/noticias/modifican-acuerdo-de-pago-a-las-aerolineas-interna.aspx
[/url]

I think doesn`t take to rocket experts either to figure out the reasons why the mediatic cover up of this sort of small details.

[pana_burda]

How is spelled fascism in kommunism ?

http://www.canalntn24.com/videos/momento-exacto-en-el-que-encapuchados-incendian-la-camioneta-de-la-gnb-en-altamira-131326

[pana_burda]

The government has labelled the protesters "fascist agitators", accusing them of fomenting a coup against the left-wing government of President Nicolas Maduro "with US backing"......

The minister alleged that protesters used the camps as bases to launch "violent attacks", after which they would "hide in the camps saying they were taking part in a peaceful protest".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-27328397

[pana_burda]

If someone interested in a nice sunny caribbean holidays, better hurry up. Or shape up your swimming skills.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/15/us-venezuela-airlines-alitalia-idUSBREA4E00M20140515

By the way, Lufthansa also joined the list of quitters today. Hope they won`t come up with the same "security" crap canadians did already.