[Sixstrings]

I have to admit it was probably the best job I ever had. We were first (even before the marines) to any hot spot. Sometimes I felt I was living a Tom Clancy ... novel.

It sounds like you did. Again, I got nothin' to say other than that does indeed sound like an exceptional "job," to say the least (assuming one makes it back and doesn't get ulcers from stress or something ). I was never in the military, but have a bit of a fascination for submarines and boomers and all of that.

I've never noticed vets posting much on this forum, about their experiences. The saddest thing about it are the PTSD and brain injury that so many have come back with, from Iraq. If we're talking war issues -- really you guys are the ones whose opinion deserves some respect.

I imagine military just has a job to do, and you do it, and that's how it has to be because if you stop to think deep thoughts then you're not doing your job. But did you or your guys have any thoughts about the whole thing in Panama in general, at the time? Looking back, from what I vaguely remember it seemed like a big training exercise and just something to do. Like Granada. I remember Noriega holed up in a convent with nuns or something, and American GI's played loud heavy metal music until the nuns kicked him out.

What the whole thing was about though.. supposed drug connections with Noriega.. seems like overreaction now. I guess it was Cold War, that was what Granada was about and was that Panama too?

I'm all for peace, but if you're facing a hostile empire, if there's a nazi axis out there or if Russia ever goes hostile empire, or if a hostile extremist muslim caliphate ever rises, then you just sort of do have to oppose that and you don't have a choice.

Then again, lately I'm thinking the Cold War finally is really over. And the era of Pax Americana after. And so now we head into the era of regional wars and empire-building, coming from other places in the world, and in Uncle Sam's absence folks will have to stop shouting "Iraq!" and have an opinion about *current* events.

[Quinny]

Suppose the question for many is -

Who is the hostile empire?

I'm all for peace, but if you're facing a hostile empire, if there's a nazi axis out there or if Russia ever goes hostile empire, or if a hostile extremist muslim caliphate ever rises, then you just sort of do have to oppose that and you don't have a choice.

[Sixstrings]

Suppose the question for many is -

Who is the hostile empire?

Well, I'll guess we'll see. Either Russia will cool it for a while, or, things will get worse and worse and then it will be more clear which side you want to side with.

[ralfy]

If American "gentle giant" empire crumbles then all of y'all will have to wake up fast and look to your own defenses -- just as the Brits and Gauls as the Roman legions, and the order they kept in the world, receded never to be seen again -- and violent Dark Age ensued, in the known world, for centuries after.

But it has always been that way throughout the Cold War, as the U.S. operates through realpolitik. That is, it will "defend" a country or let it fall based on what is more advantageous for itself.

[Plantagenet]

Who is the hostile empire?

The British Empire, obviously. It was imperialist, colonialist and racist.

Thats why its been swept into the dustbin of history---the sun has DEFINITELY set on the British Empire.


Good-bye, British Empire.

[Keith_McClary]

But it is ALWAYS the US bearing the massive burden -- the US sent 2.5 million servicemen to Iraq and Afghanistan.
...
If Europe wants to get away from the US, or Japan, or Canada, then just realize that part that you have been under the US protection umbrella. Without the US, all these places would have to massively increase defense spending and their military.
...
If American "gentle giant" empire crumbles then all of y'all will have to wake up fast and look to your own defenses -- just as the Brits and Gauls as the Roman legions, and the order they kept in the world, receded never to be seen again -- and violent Dark Age ensued, in the known world, for centuries after.

I think the Iraq invasion was about oil (from today's PO homepage). The US regime is not defending other countries or even Americans - they are empire building to advance corporate interests. Watch what they do, not what they say.

The US makes enemies in the process, which endangers other countries.

[Sixstrings]

But it has always been that way throughout the Cold War, as the U.S. operates through realpolitik. That is, it will "defend" a country or let it fall based on what is more advantageous for itself.

Well, it's just been the same "side" and same interests. Europe, Britain, US, Japan. I guess Libya was realpolitik -- yes there was their arab spring, but as I recall from the time it had something to do with French wanting something down there.

What do people want? Do they really want this alliance to fall? And for regional wars to become okay again, like an Iraq annexing a Kuwait or Russia going farther than Crimea with annexation? And China emboldened to do the same?

Look folks, there really haven't been many wars in our lifetime. Ever since WWII. That's some success, no? Looking at all of human history, really, our lifetimes have been the most peaceful for thousands of years.

Good-bye, British Empire.

Quinn deserves that jab with this thread , but personally, I'm not against the old British Empire either. You have to judge people in the times they lived. On the aggregate, Britain did a lot of good in the world just as the US has. They gave the world the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Defeated Napoleon (the final blow, anyway) and won two world wars. And India is better off right now, than if the Brits had never colonized it.

Little England and the British Empire gave us our global language too, English.

[Quinny]

I agree unless the Yanks accept 'my' Queens declaration.

Who is the hostile empire?

The British Empire, obviously. It was imperialist, colonialist and racist.

Thats why its been swept into the dustbin of history---the sun has DEFINITELY set on the British Empire.


Good-bye, British Empire.

[ralfy]

Well, it's just been the same "side" and same interests. Europe, Britain, US, Japan. I guess Libya was realpolitik -- yes there was their arab spring, but as I recall from the time it had something to do with French wanting something down there.

This might help:

"The Road to World War 3"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7L8bw5QF4

What do people want? Do they really want this alliance to fall? And for regional wars to become okay again, like an Iraq annexing a Kuwait or Russia going farther than Crimea with annexation? And China emboldened to do the same?

It does not matter what people want because the elite and government partners call the shots. And decisions are based on realpolitik, which may include making wars "okay again."

Look folks, there really haven't been many wars in our lifetime. Ever since WWII. That's some success, no? Looking at all of human history, really, our lifetimes have been the most peaceful for thousands of years.

"Why The 20th Century Was The Bloodiest Of All"

http://democraticpeace.wordpress.com/20 ... st-of-all/

[Keith_McClary]

On the aggregate, Britain did a lot of good in the world just as the US has. They gave the world the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

The previous inhabitants would say the Brits/US stole them. The Tatars of Crimea have the same complaint.

Crimea is Russia's equivalent of Florida.

[Serial_Worrier]

The US is easily responsible for up to 250 million deaths in the 20th century!

[Quinny]

Remember Bosnia being recognised and their Olympic team marching at Olympics it seemed all so touching, to the naive!

Yugoslavia

Yugoslavia was a socialist federation of several republics. Since it refused to be closely tied to the Soviet Union during the Cold War, it gained some support from the U.S. But when the Soviet Union dissolved, Yugoslavia’s usefulness to the U.S. ended, and the U.S and Germany worked to convert its socialist economy to a capitalist one by a process primarily of dividing and conquering. There were ethnic and religious differences between various parts of Yugoslavia which were manipulated by the U.S. to cause several wars which resulted in the dissolution of that country.

From the early 1990s until now Yugoslavia split into several independent nations whose lowered income, along with CIA connivance, has made it a pawn in the hands of capitalist countries. (1) The dissolution of Yugoslavia was caused primarily by the U.S. (2)

Here are estimates of some, if not all, of the internal wars in Yugoslavia. All wars: 107,000; (3,4)

Bosnia and Krajina: 250,000; (5) Bosnia: 20,000 to 30,000; (5) Croatia: 15,000; (6) and

Kosovo: 500 to 5,000. (7)

http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm

[Sixstrings]

The previous inhabitants would say the Brits/US stole them. The Tatars of Crimea have the same complaint.

Why am I the bad guy because I agree with Stephen Harper?

It's not okay, I can't agree with Stephen Harper about Ukraine?

Some Canadians must be voting conservative up there or conservatives wouldn't have the majority. If you're really on the pro-Russia side, then start by talking to your fellow Canadians because apparently they keep voting conservative and Harper has been all "I'm laying down the law in Ukraine" and sounding like George Bush gonna "smoke 'em out" and a lot of rhetoric the US isn't even doing.

Canada's at the forefront of all this. Talk to your fellow Canadians. And mention those tar sands while you're at it.