meemoe_uk wrote:5. Poverty and it's cofactor - high population growth rate, is under control of the world elite. It exists because they want it to exist.
Are you purposingly trying to generate fear and panic over non-situation ?
When modern Malthusians insist that resources are finite, they only expose their historical illiteracy, misanthropy and social pessimism.
The main Malthusian idea I think we should challenge is the idea that resources are finite. The idea that the Earth itself is finite. The idea that we live on a finite planet and therefore we can only have a certain number of people, living in a certain number of homes, eating a certain amount of food.
Because it seems to me that the population-control lobby’s obsession with finiteness really exposes what it is all about. It reveals the historical illiteracy and the social pessimism that underpin the pseudo-scientific movement of Malthusianism. The Malthusians’ focus on finiteness explains firstly why they are always wrong about everything; secondly why they are so misanthropic.
On the first point, Malthusians are simply wrong to say that resources are fixed, that we can measure and predict when they will run out. It seems commonsensical to say that the Earth is finite, and a bit mad to say that it isn’t, but it’s important to recognise how fluid and changeable resources are. It’s important to recognise that the usefulness and longevity of a resource is determined as much by us – by the level of social development we have reached – as it is by the existence of that resource in the first place.
It seems very clear to me that today, still, the main problem we face is absolutely social rather than natural. We now live under a cult of sustainability, a social and political framework which says that we should never overhaul what exists and should instead make do with the world as it is. The idea of sustainability is anti-exploration, anti-experimentation, anti-risk – all the qualities we need if we are going to make the kind of breakthroughs that earlier generations made with coal and uranium and other resources. In contrast to the past, today human society is accommodating to social limitations, and accepting the idea that they are natural, rather than trying to break through them. The Malthusian mindset is winning, and that is a tragedy for all of us.
It is a spectacularly one-sided view of people. Because we don’t only use resources; we also create them. We are not only consumers; we are also producers. In fact, I would argue that we have realised the potential of this planet. Without us it would just be another ball spinning through space stuffed with useless coal and pointless uranium. We extracted that coal and uranium and made something amazing with it: modern human society. We created the social conditions in which the Earth’s resources could be used to their full potential; we created the means for extracting and transforming those resources; we created cities, workplaces and homes on the back of those resources; and every time, we managed to get more and more stuff from fewer resources and created new resources along the way.
eXpat wrote:I actually took the time to read the full article.
Lore wrote:Well, I thought about it once again. Took about a second, and yes, it's finite. Not only that the Earth has an expiration date. I feel somewhat refreshed for having said that.
Carlhole wrote:eXpat wrote:I actually took the time to read the full article.
And what did you think of MY comment?
eXpat wrote:Carlhole wrote:eXpat wrote:I actually took the time to read the full article.
And what did you think of MY comment?
The one here? i don´t think that is a "refreshing perspective" as you call it, at all, that is just a pile of bollocks for the reasons explained above, I can be proved wrong though, you just have to present a working transmutation machine, so can change back the ashes to trees, the CO2 and methane to oxigen, sand to fertile earth, and oil and corexit to pristine water and I will recant from my Malthusian views.
eXpat wrote:Nonsense and idioticy have no political party, they can come equally from Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Torys, Labor, Anarchists, Fascists, etc.
And what that guy is spouting is 100% undiluted nonsense and sheer idiocy.
For him, milk comes from the supermarket, he has a magical thinking, things just happen for him, if yesterday there was a forest somewhere and today there´s a parking lot he is enthralled in wonder!, more places were to park!! that ought to be good!, never mind that that land is not arable anymore, or that we are missing the contribution of trees to a breathable atmosphere. That is not profitable! no one is making money out of that! That´s what the environment is out there for, to make a buck out of it!
And lets don´t get started in the population subject!!!, those evil Malthusians want to limit our numbers! . There are gonna be less consumers!!! Oh the horror!
PrestonSturges wrote:It's the point I was making the other day - there are AGW and Malthusian doomers, and there are the old school Helter Skelter race war paranoid survivalist scanning the sky for UN helicopters. The overlap of the Tea Party and doomerism is not AGW, it's belief in conspiracies like Climategate, Obama's birth certificate, evolution, ACORN, slavery reparations etc that are all supposedly multigenerational global conspiracies controlled by the Illuminauti. And they share their love of AK-47s and Patrick Swayze.
And they share their love of AK-47s and Patrick Swayze.
Carlhole wrote:Look, it's a simple point I'm making: If you think that peak oil doom will inevitably lead to civilizational collapse, there is no way that governmental policies of any sort can possibly forestall such an event.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Carlhole wrote:Look, it's a simple point I'm making: If you think that peak oil doom will inevitably lead to civilizational collapse, there is no way that governmental policies of any sort can possibly forestall such an event.
Many doomers don't care about it.
They are already haggling about, how future more sustainable systems which are going to emerge will look like.
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