efarmer wrote:Thanks for a very thoughtful post. We are so attached to thinking that how it has been is what is supposed to be in the future, to the point where we lose our ability to create an adequate new future.
Ludi wrote:Don't pay any attention to EU, he doesn't even live in America, though he likes to comment on American issues for some reason. A lot. A whole lot.
green_achers wrote: the government institutes a WPA-type project in which workers are bussed to farms in their area to replace some of the petro-inputs.
Pops wrote:green_achers wrote: the government institutes a WPA-type project in which workers are bussed to farms in their area to replace some of the petro-inputs.
Thanks for that achers, here are a couple of things I looked up. According to this calculator, if diesel fuel were 3x what it is now, say, $9/gal, it would cost about $7 an acre to run a swather - basically a hay/grain mower, using a 80HP tractor. Google says the average reaper in 1850 could cut an acre or a little more using a scythe. Factoring in the fitness of the average unemployed shoe store clerk I'm thinking you might expect 1/2 an acre at most. So labor (and pretty strong labor at that) would need to be worth less than $3.50 a day or fuel would need to be much higher than $9/gal before it would be worthwhile for someone to provide these people room and board.
Not that it won't happen, but realistically it will be a far fall before we go back to stoop labor, there are just too many ways to grow 50-100 gallons of vegetable oil on an acre of land.
gollum wrote:You have some valid points, I wonder if "slavery" will take some form of indentured servitude, or passing debt down generations? The wealthy seem to be getting a lot of mileage from blaming the poor and unemployed for the problems of this country.
gollum wrote:the people who run things need to start to understand and accept the nature of the problem.
Ludi wrote:gollum wrote:the people who run things need to start to understand and accept the nature of the problem.
Who are "the people who run things"?
Ludi wrote:I guess I just don't look at the world that way. I mean, I know what you're saying, but it always seems weird to me that people think of some special group of people as "running things." It just seems to imply too much, I don't know - knowledge, skill, something....which it seems to me nobody has. Some people have power (which we to a greater or lesser degree allow them to have) but, I don't know if their blundering about really qualifies as "running things."
Ludi wrote:I guess it seems to me if some "elites" are "running things" they're doing a totally crap job of it!
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