[Taskforce_Unity]

I went to a lecture last week and they were discussing that America might possible break up in two factions. The speaker was worried by seeing the cultural differences between the Heartland region and the coastal regions (as seen quite good by the red and blue colors for the states in the last elections).

He was saying that this break up might occur between now and 2010

Any Americans who have some ideas about this? Is the patriotic unity of America being damaged in the future by actions of the Bush Goverment? Will America stay as a whole empire or break down in smaller parts?

[Sencha]

In all seriousness, I truly believe that our country is intensely divided, and that a break-up would not be entirely implausible. It's of course, happened before, so my guess is that it could happen again. The last time we broke up, was due to the outcome of a Presidential election, so that could be the event in which one of the two Americas, will secede.

However, there are certain obstacles I think would be faced in a break-up. For one, we don't know how kindly the Administration would take to that if it happened. Would the President label an entire portion of the country a terrorist, rogue state?

I don't think this country has the capacity to endure another civil war, especially with the weapons we have now. It's nice to think that we could go our own seperate ways and leave each other alone, but somehow I think that's unrealistic.

I would imagine that small parts of the country would break away, but I think huger portions seperating would be less likely. On the other hand, if breaking away from the rest of the country would bring about too much of an economic hardship, then it simply would not be viable from a financial standpoint to do so. I know I wouldn't want to secede from the union if I knew it would starve us out.

My guess is, it would take a catastrophic event (like Peak Oil) to actually make it safe for the states that break up and in fact, it might become a necessity to do so. Rome broke up during its later years, because it was getting too large to handle, and there were too many problems to manage at once. Many people consider the U.S. to be the modern day Roman empire, so...maybe we'll see a repeat of that.

[satjeet]

I believe the country will break up - but de facto, not de jure. As
energy sources wane, the ability to project control over long
distances will diminish. We will depend on regions and localities -
and federal even state governments will become less and less important.

[Specop_007]

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

[Sencha]

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

You type that kind of inflammatory crap, and MissingLink busts me about what I write?

What's your problem anyway? Did a democrat mollest you in your youth or something? Oh yeah, Democratic party, real gestapo right...shows how much you know (or don't).

Sorry, a gun-toting Republican probably just died in Iraq. One down, the south to go.

[UncoveringTruths]

Specop_007

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

Sencha

You type that kind of inflammatory crap, and MissingLink busts me about what I write?

What's your problem anyway? Did a democrat mollest you in your youth or something? Oh yeah, Democratic party, real gestapo right...shows how much you know (or don't).

Sorry, a gun-toting Republican probably just died in Iraq. One down, the south to go.

I guess that answers this threads question.

[Olaf]

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

You know Specop, sometimes you write some insightful stuff that makes me think, and then you go and write something like that, and just irritate the piss right out of me.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

Olaf (one of those liberal, tree hugging assbrains you are always bashing).

P.S. Who also happens to hunt (believe in gun ownership), has served in the Army National Guard (Infantry) and the Navy (as a Gunners Mate), but also believes in protecting the environment, sustainable development (or even more to the point, local community living), social equality, abortion rights, separation of church and state (boy that went right out the window), and legalization of marijuana (decrimalization of drug use in general, since like the "war on terror", the "war on drugs" is not one that will ever be fully won, but provides a nice budget line item).

But what do I know, apparently my ass is up where my brain is supposed to be.

[cador]

John Titor (the internet time traveller from 2036; www.johntitor.com) said that the signs of a US civil war would start to become apparent sometime after the 2004 elections.

I think that the resentment that the urban and rural factions feel for each other seems pretty benign right now but this could be multiplied by 10 if there is a severe recession in 2006 because of peak oil.

[Kingcoal]

Specop_007 just does it for attention, pay him/her/shemale, whatever, no mind.

[cador]

Leftists considering the use of violence because of 2004 election results

These are just a few disgruntled leftists talking amongst themselves anonymously, but imagine what a severe recession in 2006 might inflame?

[ISI246]

America will seperate into two that is my assumption atleast thats what i expect and for the most part most people are going leave America in all. That is my theorey.

-Joseph

[Specop_007]

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

You type that kind of inflammatory crap, and MissingLink busts me about what I write?

What's your problem anyway? Did a democrat mollest you in your youth or something? Oh yeah, Democratic party, real gestapo right...shows how much you know (or don't).

Sorry, a gun-toting Republican probably just died in Iraq. One down, the south to go.

Whats my problem? Look at Kalifornia. If you cant see the problems then, then I dont know what will convince you. How about the fact the Democratic party essentially thinks everyone should share everything, and no one is better then another. Redistribution of wealth, and trampling ALL OVER our Rights. Dont believe me?
Hmmm, can I speak out against the Democratic Party? Well, not if they had their way...
Can I own a gun? Not if they have their way.....
Can I get some tax breaks? Nope, in fact i should pay MORE in taxes so some laxy bastard can sit on his ass all day and not have to pay taxes....

Seems to me the Democratic Party is pretty much directly opposed to my beliefs. Now, its just as easy to say this this and this about the Republican party and have a problem with their mindset. So thats ok.
The point is, this is mainly a liberal minded board. If someone speaks out as a Republican, most people here want him removed or his posts deleted...... Wheres that 1St amendment at? Wheres that Democratic belief were all equal? Dont *I* have a RIGHT to share my opinion, even if it doesnt match with yours?
Or are you being selective in who has "Rights" and who doesnt??

[Specop_007]

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

You know Specop, sometimes you write some insightful stuff that makes me think, and then you go and write something like that, and just irritate the piss right out of me.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

Fair enough. Congrats for settin your balls on the table and tellin it like you see it. Feels good doesnt it?

Olaf (one of those liberal, tree hugging assbrains you are always bashing).

Ok

P.S. Who also happens to hunt (believe in gun ownership),

Can I own any rifle I want? How about one of those big evil black rifles? Say, an AR15. Or an AK-47. Can I own a civilian version of one of those? Because most Democrats dont want you to own ANYTHING, if they had their way. Heres an example. You know Kalifornia has recently passed a ban on ownership of the .50 BMG. A gun, I might add, which has NEVER, NOT ONCE been used in ANY crime. Nice. Ban a gun thats never committed a crime...... Yeah, Democrats support gun ownership alright.....

has served in the Army National Guard (Infantry) and the Navy (as a Gunners Mate),

Good, whether we see eye to eye, you DO have my respect for that.

but also believes in protecting the environment,

This has always confused me. Why is it assumed Conservatives DONT think about the environment. Lets take the ANWAR issue. People say it'll ruin the environment.... Tell me, how will drilling a few holes in the ground "ruin the environment". We dont want to drill the oil then dump it all over the tundra! We dont want to pull in with tanks and kill everything then drill! How will drilling threaten the environment? People have this mindset conservatives want to strip mine, drill then pave EVERYTHING right over. Not exactly an accurate mindset.

sustainable development (or even more to the point, local community living),

I wouldnt necessarily put that as a Democratic or Republican based mindset. Not really a political issue.

social equality,

Social equality? Fine by me. Or economic equality? Because I have a serious problem with the fact I pay taxes so some "less fortunate" person can work a pissant job and collect a handout. I also have a problem with the fact I'm expected to carry more of the social burden becuase I make more.

abortion rights,

Thats another issue where parties are mixed, but usually vote in line with what will get them votes.

separation of church and state (boy that went right out the window),

JFK? He was Catholic if I recall......

and legalization of marijuana (decrimalization of drug use in general, since like the "war on terror", the "war on drugs" is not one that will ever be fully won, but provides a nice budget line item).

Another issue thats bi partisan.

But what do I know, apparently my ass is up where my brain is supposed to be.

Sorry to hear that. Need a flashlighyt, I can recommend a good one. I like Surefires, but their expensive. I have an XM-3 thats very nice.

[Specop_007]

I'll tell ya, I sure hope it does.
I'm getting pretty damned tired of these fuckin Democrats and their assbrained schemes trying to shove gestapo laws down my throat.

You type that kind of inflammatory crap, and MissingLink busts me about what I write?

I forgot to add, I dont really want to hear shit about that. For the past month I had Monte Quest so far up my ass over every little thing I coulda spit his letters on the screen, while the "other side" (Whatever that happens to be) was dancing in fairie dust and singing kumbaya.
Guess what? Seems you finally got that equality you wanted. Feels good doesnt it, knowing we can now BOTH get busted out for stuff. Welcome to equality...OH WAIT!! THATS not what you had in mind is it.... Oh thats right, you want the traditional form of Democratic equality.... That is, YOU can do anything, but those opposed cant do shit...
Sorry, doesnt work like that anymore.

[Olaf]

Fair enough. Congrats for settin your balls on the table and tellin it like you see it. Feels good doesnt it?

Yeah, it does, but I generally just put it right out there, even when it bites me back.

Can I own any rifle I want? How about one of those big evil black rifles? Say, an AR15. Or an AK-47. Can I own a civilian version of one of those? Because most Democrats dont want you to own ANYTHING, if they had their way. Heres an example. You know Kalifornia has recently passed a ban on ownership of the .50 BMG. A gun, I might add, which has NEVER, NOT ONCE been used in ANY crime. Nice. Ban a gun thats never committed a crime...... Yeah, Democrats support gun ownership alright.....

Now we are getting somewhere and not just calling names. I didn't say I was a Democrat, just that your comment irked me. I'm actually registered Green Party, but that should be irrelevant. I am liberal and not ashamed of it. I tend to side more with the Democrats, but not always. If you had asked me about the assault rifles/military style weapons a year or two ago, I would have said they have no place in civilian hands. I don't think that now. Here is why.

The government is by the people and for the people. But the governments of the world that start out that way often forget that little tidbit. In a day and age where there is the potential for a great deal of corruption (which I guess is pretty much always) the citizens have to have the ability to instill a little bit of fear in its governing body. If that citizenry isn't armed, or at least armable, that is less likely. If the government and military have automatic weapons etc., my 12 gauge won't do me a whole lot of good (well it might, but I know how to use it too ) I'm not calling for an armed insurgency, but it is sort of like the cold war, we know they are watching us, but they should also know we are watching them. Furthermore, Peak Oil obviously changes alot of things. If things get bad, I don't want to be a sitting duck. Should violent felons be able to go and buy guns? In my mind, no. Everyone else...well it's in the Constitution.

Good, whether we see eye to eye, you DO have my respect for that

.

Thanks for that. I put my military background in there to help make my point and get your attention a little. It is not all black and white.

This has always confused me. Why is it assumed Conservatives DONT think about the environment. Lets take the ANWAR issue. People say it'll ruin the environment.... Tell me, how will drilling a few holes in the ground "ruin the environment". We dont want to drill the oil then dump it all over the tundra! We dont want to pull in with tanks and kill everything then drill! How will drilling threaten the environment? People have this mindset conservatives want to strip mine, drill then pave EVERYTHING right over. Not exactly an accurate mindset.

In my experience, there is often, not always, but often, a difference in the way the environment is viewed by liberals and conservatives. Conservatives often view the environment as a RESOURCE only. One they can use now, or one they can use later, but eventually, it is getting used. To me, and many liberals, it can be a resource in some circumstances, and a "nature for natures sake" in others. I do not believe we have an inherent claim over everything. I think your classification of oil drilling "as drilling a few holes in the ground" is a TREMENDOUS oversimplification of the process and the impact it can have on an area. Come on, do you really think that? I guess someone is going to just walk in there with a post hole digger, a hose, and a 5 gallon gas can right?

Quote:
sustainable development (or even more to the point, local community living),

I wouldnt necessarily put that as a Democratic or Republican based mindset. Not really a political issue.

Not really political, no, but it is sort of along the lines of conservative vs. liberal/neo-hippy etc. Sustainable development should be a no brainer, but for some reason it's not. Now why would that be? Capitalism and greed. Haves and have nots. Locally I could come up with suggestions for this, nationally, can't figure out how to make it work.

Social equality? Fine by me. Or economic equality? Because I have a serious problem with the fact I pay taxes so some "less fortunate" person can work a pissant job and collect a handout. I also have a problem with the fact I'm expected to carry more of the social burden becuase I make more.

My opinion, make more...pay more, make less...pay less, but no free rides. However, in a society where there is still a great deal of prejudice, either overt or covert, be it against homosexuality, race, gender, or spirituality you often have to even the playing field. I don't know that the programs we have in place are the best way to do this, but you have to do something. Discussions like this encourage that kind of critical thinking. In the words of the black, pot smoking musician Ben Harper, "...if your causing no harm then you're alright with me".

JFK? He was Catholic if I recall......

Yeah, so. Price of tea in China? Just about everyone has some religion or at least spirituality. Everyone before that was what, Protestant right? Senator Lieberman is Jewish, so what? I follow no "religous" doctrine and would probably be considered more Pagan than anything, which would almost certainly keep me from any major political office. Why? Is my head not on straight because I'm not a Christian? This is supposed to be an open and free society. To use another musical reference...Rage Against the Machine, "...what, the land of the free, whoever told you that is your enemy". But this could just keep me going for hours typing



Quote:
and legalization of marijuana (decrimalization of drug use in general, since like the "war on terror", the "war on drugs" is not one that will ever be fully won, but provides a nice budget line item).

Another issue thats bi partisan.

I think drug legalization is definitely a partisan issue. Find me a prominent republican that supports it and I'll find you a leprachaun that shits rainbow sherbert (Movie Quote "Super Troopers", credit where credit due.) Too many pop culture references turning up here.


Quote:
But what do I know, apparently my ass is up where my brain is supposed to be.

Sorry to hear that. Need a flashlighyt, I can recommend a good one. I like Surefires, but their expensive. I have an XM-3 thats very nice.

Nah, I've got a little head light that straps onto my skull I use when coming in and out of the woods from hunting. It's bright, and I figure that will help me pull my head out when it gets too wedged up in there.

Olaf

[Taskforce_Unity]

Great turning into a flame fest. Could we keep the issue of INTERPRETATION of the differences between the democrats and republican parties outside please. There are differences but to me they aren't that big. Both parties flaming are quite unnuanced and bashing eachother.

If there will be a split up will both parts able to keep eachother in control or will there be no foothold in for instance the coastal part? Is their an even distrubution of power and resources?

[TheSupplyGuy]

Both sides are kind of bitter, but it doesn't seem to me that it'll be open revolt or anything(then again, I do live in a solid red state, or at least one that GW won by more than 51%, it was 57% if I remember correctly, lol). it would take a major recession, war, or scandal to force something like that. I basically feel that there is a wound, but something would have to pick it to make it bleed.

[Guest]

Why do you guys put up with this spe_cop fella. Thats the trouble with you Americans - you spend inordinate amounts of time massaging the egos of these time wasters.

Times too short to worry what they think. In fact, I wonder what he's/she's/its doing here. You don't see me surfing whacko Right wing sites to hassle them. Each to their own I say, speckel (is that spek_up, spat_crap...oh what ever....).

[Sencha]

Why do you guys put up with this spe_cop fella. Thats the trouble with you Americans - you spend inordinate amounts of time massaging the egos of these time wasters.

That's a good point, guess I had to step in and say something to defend the Democratic party though, and couldn't help myself. It's strange that I'm so loyal to it, to tell you the truth I don't really know that they're much better than the Republicans, but then there's the whole lesser of two evils thing...

I also have to add, that I do believe we should own whatever weapons we want. For the exact reason that if there IS a breakup, its probably going to be violent, and I know I'm going to want heavy firepower if things get dicey. But that's the only reason why...

[Guest]

Sencha

Owning guns etc is not an issue with me. We will have to deal with PO as we find it. I live in the Deep South of New Zealand, out in the country and bear arms when out hunting. I ain't no city dweller.

Our problem is an excess of consumerism (shopping mall culture) - too much of everything - by folks in the city. I get pissed off with smart mongrels like this spe_c dude who spouts the same crap we hear over here from the boneheads that want to tarmac this country with more shops and roads.

I am armed, have dogs, have always preferred my own company and reckon we should leave nature alone. Thats why I live in the best place on earth - ain't too many smart asses round here and not likely to be for a long time to come.