[vtsnowedin]

How big a dieoff for the world to take notice? Let me suggest that the year where total deaths world wide exceed total births will be the year where the world focuses on the problem. Then it becomes a question of what if anything to do about it. National policies about importing and exporting food and medicine and the pricing of same will have much more impact then any action of a seasoned citizen north American.

[Ludi]

How do I save my mother from this rat race treadmill? How do I convince her and my step-father to live modestly in preparation for a diminished future?

I don't think you can. I was not able to even talk to my folks about negative scenarios. Only after my step-mom died have I been able to talk to my dad about the future. I think all you can do, at best, is tell your folks your concerns. You can't make people behave a different way than they want to behave. It took me a long time to learn that. But it doesn't mean you can't be there for them when they need you.

[mos6507]

So defacto she doesn't get it

I dunno, that sounds like an OK start, Repent. You can't expect her to go live in a Yurt immediately. You've got to understand that the majority won't even go as far as she plans to do.

[mos6507]

We aint seen anything coming close to these numbers yet.

Yes, that's why I bristle when people say it's TSHTF/TEOTWAWKI. Once we're on the backside of peak population, it's going to be a lot worse than it is now, perhaps so bad that we won't even have proper enough accounting to verify that the die-off has begun.

[Ludi]

Yes, that's why I bristle when people say it's TSHTF/TEOTWAWKI. Once we're on the backside of peak population, it's going to be a lot worse than it is now, perhaps so bad that we won't even have proper enough accounting to verify that the die-off has begun.

Death rate would have to more than double for the die-off to have begun.

Birth rate: 19.86 births/1,000 population (2009 est.)

Death rate: 8.37 deaths/1,000 population (2009 est.)

http://www.indexmundi.com/world/#Demographics

[SeaGypsy]

Wow Mos, that's hard. Explains something to me also.
I applaud your effort to get your parents into a safer situation btw.

Seems my point about babies dieing got ignored.

Everyone expects old and sick to die, next most vulnerable group is babies and when they die people freak out completely. A million baby deaths in Europe one summer would change things more than 10 million oldies/ sickies.

[Plantagenet]

It bothers me that 90% of the population are oblivious to these problems!.... Older people have NO CONCEPTION that things can be different than the lifestyle they have lived with over the past 60 years. They don't believe me when I talk of impending shortages, the end to economic growth. Even the obvious collapse in the banking system, which is in their face, is met with disbelief- they think the problems are temporary, that everything will be back to normal soon.

Of course boomers and most other people think things will never be different....the last 60 years ---when the boomers have lived their lives--- has been a the culmination of a period of American dominance and affluence, with a growing economy and no major economic depressions and no major wars.

And its not just the general population that doesn't have a clue---the Obama administration also doesn't have a clue about the peak oil issue and what it will mean and has done virtually nothing to inform the people and get the country ready.

[SeaGypsy]

I can't talk honestly with any of my Australian or US family about my view of reality.
Everything gets pulled into their view of the world, which is that everything is an ego competition game; which I am trying to win by putting down their lifestyle. The automatic response is: "You are not satisfied with your own 'progress in life' (getting ahead in the great lizard brain ego competition of humanity); so you are trying to put 'us' (the successfull ones) down.