[DiggitySmiggity]

In much of the developed world we are now on the cusp of what I call "peak police".


Many departments are finding it difficult to atract new recruits, at a time when officers are aging and retiring. In the United States, this is exacerbated by the vaccine rift -- some departments are now lookijg at having to cut as much as 25% of their personnel due to vaccine resistance.

This means that the police departments nationwide are apt to begin contracting. There will probably be exceptional cities that manage to maintain police force size, but the overall trend is clearly pointing towards a decline. In particular, rural policing will surely drop to effectively zero.

[Newfie]

Welcome aboard.

Rural areas have been depopulating and finding it hard to maintain services. Covid has made something of an uptick. Remains to he seen if this is long term.

Cities is another issue. These civil servants of all stripes frequently work mostly for benefits and pension. The pensions are increasingly looking at risk, underfunded.

In that sense we have been defunding the police, and other public servants, for a long time. It is gonna catch up.

[evilgenius]

I think about a third of all people are falling into this trap. There is no reason that people who have been working as police should be any different.

The other day, NPR ran a story on paramilitary training centers in North Carolina. There are so many military bases in North Carolina that this kind of thing bleeds over, for more reasons than simply Covid.

I think it does make sense that it boils down to folks wanting to identify with a group. They must feel aimless, or helpless within society without those contacts. The thing that is suspicious, is how their arguments are framed in a downtrodden, or oppressed tenor. They make those who aren't their enemies into enemies. They shade what have always been gray areas. The narrative is going someplace. That place has never been a place where visiting it has ended well for man.

Anti-vaxxers are running around talking about the rest of us just like we imagine a work place shooter does, just before they actually pull out the hardware. This is gong to get interesting.

I think an important principle must hold during these times, that we don't assume individuals are guilty of something before they actually do it. That sort of thinking, the high handed one, is not what this situation needs.

[Pops]

The UN said there is an average of 300/100k cops globally, the US has 239.

I'd guess it shouldn't be surprising that a majority of citizens were repelled watching Chauvin casually strangle Floyd.

That people who joined up because they like the idea of having an actual license to kill would be put off by the current mood is not so surprising either. And those who are public spirited are likely tired of being lumped in with the Chauvins

I think balancing of those two views is hard. I don't want a social worker confronting an active shooter. By the same token some amped up lil-Rambo crew doing a no-knock warrant service over a pot ticket needs to stop. Reagan proved once again that prohibition only breeds organized criminals, as if we needed another lesson. The number of Americans in prison because of the "war" is truly sickening.


https://www.sentencingproject.org/crimi ... ice-facts/

In the US, prosecutor is many times first stop on a political path. Being "tough on crime" is a proven vote getter from local court right up to POTUS. As a result we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, edging out such freedom lovers as El Salvador and Rwanda. The result of course is every year we lock up more and more, until recently.

Probably that recent rollback of the stupefying array of excuses to hassle people who "look guilty" has an impact too. It is tough to deal with the Floyds all day long, tougher still when you need to do it without kneeling on their neck.

The worst thing in policing lately was the decision to repurpose soldiers and gear from war to policing, AND then make them the "front-line terrorist hunter." Crimeny.

The vaccine thing is too stupid to discuss. Fire 'em all.
.

[evilgenius]

Wouldn't that just be an invitation to have right wing death squads? The more aggressive kind of male is not going to take it lightly, the perceived sleight. He will be stewing, and looking for others who think like he does. Add in the sort of unemployment that the cowboy style approach is going to suffer with the advancement of workplace automation, and I can see smoke.

It would be different, if society had any sort of handle on male rage, or self-inflicted infantilism. The right wing is Peter Pan. Peter is the one who had all of the real power. God help us.

Incidentally, it's going to happen, one way or the other, because self-driving cars are coming, and with them the end of the need to have so many officers patrolling for, especially, DUI's, but, also for everything else. So, they could still wind up marginalized, and complaining. The good thing about that second path is that there is a chance there will, at least, be economic provision for them, if it comes to automation actually ending their jobs. But that wouldn't end the cultural stagnation that underlies their actual complaint. Nor their refusal to confront their own infantile motivations.

[Newfie]

On my social media contacts is is the Lefties that are the bigots who are more aggressively attacking folks.

Actually kinda like here but far more aggressive.

O do see a lot of systemic problems with our culture. We carp about police and gangs in the same breath but those problems have common roots, and y roots support our political system which is very corrupt.

[Pops]

Wouldn't that just be an invitation to have right wing death squads?

Do you mean the fire the anti-vaxer cops part? They are going to be a part of the next insurrection or death squad either way.

There are lots of people against this vaccine who aren't right wing nutjobs. Black folks are pretty scared of it. And there are a whole bunch of aroma-therapy types arrayed against medicine in general, the "vaccines cause autism" people. And of course there are young people who are invincible and have been indoctrinated in the belief that freedom means screw everybody else.

Really, the US in general has a problem of perspective. NYT or one of the papers had an article about folks out in the sticks who are adamantly against this vaccine, it was the usual suspects, I won't bore you. But the reporter was seemingly surprised that right or left, the people who are overwhelmingly vaccinated are folks old enough to have experienced deadly disease in their childhood, polio especially but TB whooping cough etc.

Our societal memory is short, it has been a couple or three generations since people routinely died of disease. I may be an early adopter of technology but I'm sort of a history buff and so I like to read about old times. But more specifically my step-dad had polio as a boy and walked with a limp his whole life, he wasn't allowed to serve in wwII because of it and he had a lot of guilt about that. Also my Aunt Tressie died in the 1918 flu pandemic and my grandmother talked about her some.

On the other hand, there is a whole media-political-corporate complex who have convinced a good portion of the country to not believe their eyes or what they read in any middle road publication and for god-sakes never trust the government. They are fueling the largest darwinian culling of humans in a long time. I'd link to some studies showing the correlation between red states, R governors, anti-public health views and republican deaths but it would not change one iota of "belief". Because as we all know anything that doesn't fit with our preconceived notion is not just wrong but fake news.

[Plantagenet]

. I'd link to some studies showing the correlation between red states, R governors, anti-public health views and republican deaths .....

It turns out the group with the worst vaccination rate in the US are black Americans, who tend to be Ds living in blue states with D governors.

It seems racist to me that the MSM and the Ds and the Biden administration mostly ignore the fact that black Americans have the lowest vaccination rates of any US ethnic group. Personally I'd like to see Joe Biden and the Ds and the MSM address this problem by shifting their focus to getting more of our most vulnerable people in the black population to agree to be vaccinated.

And then there is masking ----it would really help if leading black politicians like Obama and Mayor Lightfoot in Chicago and leading White D politicians like Gov. Newsome of Calfornia and even Joe Biden himself would wear masks to avoid spreading covid when they are out in public or when they are at huge parties instead of blowing off the mask rules they want other people to follow.


What leading Ds seem to believe when it comes to their own behavior

Cheers!

[Pops]

Long piece in the NYT today on policing. lots of info.
I think a few stories a month are free.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/p ... lings.html

[Outcast_Searcher]

Long piece in the NYT today on policing. lots of info.
I think a few stories a month are free.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/p ... lings.html

Or, one could simply subscribe. Even though it is more left-leaning than I, often unconfortably so, the NYT is the ONE site I pay for, for news. Because at least overall on the news side (vs. the opinions side), I do think they have a fair amount of integrity and competence, and earned reputation.

But let me guess. You still won't see this because I have had, on occasion, the temerity to disagree with you on a point? So far easier to ignore me than deal with me, even if you don't always agree with me?

Assuming no response, as I expect, little wonder the two sides can't effectively talk, given your example. And like it or not, I'm very much in the middle (right wing on various spending and government size issues, and left wing on various social freedom of choice and against science denial, etc. issues).

And I know, that doesn't fit in with the conformist view of the right or left. Sorry if that makes your head hurt, but in reality, deal with it, because there are FEW prototypical right or left wingers, across the issue spectrum. (And I'm basically speaking to everyone here, not just Pops).

[Pops]

Also today I see that Philadelphia will no longer stop drivers for low risk infractions, one of the first big cities to do so. The NYT story detailed that even though cops being shot happens only once in 5 or 6 million stops, because stops happen umpteen million times a year that is where the danger is, for both officer and driver. I think it is a great idea. Maybe they can take a still shot of the broken tail light and send a ticket, save everyone the stress.
https://www.newsweek.com/philadelphia-b ... es-1644271

[Newfie]

Being in Philadelphia I think this is a news story that is not.

A couple of weeks ago some street racers took over the circle around city hall about 10:00 in the evening. That shut all surface traffic on the major NS and EW major streets. The “racers” were cutting doughnuts, hanging out of their cars. They came prepared to party complete with fireworks. They captured one police patrol car and circled it while cutting doughnuts while others jumped on the car and bashed the hood and rood in.

The next day the police were asking for information on who was there. I believe no arrests were made. Apparently this kind if thing goes on regularly around the city, it just made news because of the location.

While this appears a HUGE FU to the police department, I think it is actually aimed at the DA, Mayor, and City Council. The DA does NOT have the police support. He ran on a platform to reduce bail, now he is whining the Judges don’t access enough bail. He has been trying to empty the jails, seems he is succeeding. But he can’t release our ex-Representative and prior DA, they are in a Federal prison.

My Wife LOVED center city and wanted to never move. She is now firmly behind selling the house because of the ineffectual city government and corruption.

[Plantagenet]

The good citizens of Minneapolis just defeated a ballot measure that would've defunded the police.

Polls showed that more whites wanted to defund the police then blacks........this makes sense to me because black people tend to live in poor, crime-infested neighborhoods
where they need MORE police presence.

And crime in Minneapolis has gotten much worse since the George Floyd riots.

So the good news here is that the black voters of Minneapolis just rejected the racist attempt by white liberals to deprive them of police protection, and voted down the nutty
ballot initiative that would've defunded the police department in Minneapolis.


Dear Minneapolis PD....all is forgiven....we won't defund you after all.....would you please come back and help reduce the huge increase in crime Minneapolis has seen since the George Floyd riots.---signed: the voters of Minneapolis

Cheers!

[Tanada]

How police departments are getting creative with recruitment while dealing with staffing shortages



in the midst of *** crime wave. Stockton California's Police department was understaffed by 100 officers and the community noticed sometimes I see it one or two around, but that's kind of *** rare current new Orleans has had so much trouble recruiting officers. The city is hiring civilians to take on some of the work, such as medical calls for Police departments across the country are facing severe shortage is *** nationwide survey last year found an 18% increase in police resignations. Their retirement rate jumped 45%. The best recruiting tool that you can have. Miami police chief Manuel Morales Says filling his 60 openings has been *** challenge. There is *** what the perception of an anti police sentiment that's growing throughout the nation. That discourages some of the applicants because I've talked to some of them here in Florida. *** program to boost police recruitment, offers *** $5,000 signing voters to officers who move here from out of state. The bonus is also for recruits joining law enforcement. For the first time we want to reward people who are going into this profession in Minneapolis short, 300 officers. The City council approved *** $7000 loyalty check for staying on the force Chief Morales tries to spread the word that policing can be *** career with impact. You can go and rescue *** family from an abusive husband. You can go and save someone from the trenches of drug addiction and you can do that each and every day. But for now with high crime rates and *** tight labor market recruiting remains an uphill battle Benavidez CBS News Miami.

How police departments are getting creative with recruitment while dealing with staffing shortages

Some departments are offering hefty signing bonuses to officers who move from other states, others offer sizeable loyalty checks for staying on the force.

Violent crime has been on the rise since the start of the pandemic. At the same time, staffing at police departments has been on the decline, leaving big cities scrambling to recruit officers.In the midst of a crime wave, Stockton California’s police department was understaffed by 100 officers. New Orleans has had so much trouble recruiting officers, the city is hiring civilians to take on some of the work, CBS News reports.Police departments across the country are facing severe shortages. A nationwide survey last year from the Police Executive Research Forum found an 18% increase in police resignations. The retirement rate jumped 45%.“The best recruiting tool that you can have, word of mouth,” said Miami Police Chief Manuel Morales.It’s been a challenge for his department to fill 60 vacancies they currently have, CBS News reports.“There is the perception of an anti-police sentiment that's growing throughout the nation that discourages some of the applicants,” said Chief MoralesIn Florida, a program to boost police recruitment offers a $5,000 signing bonus for officers who move from other states. The bonus is also for recruits joining law enforcement for the first time.“We want to reward people who are going into this profession. We want to value people that are going into this profession,” said Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.Bonuses like those in Florida are growing more common. In Minneapolis, short 300 officers, the city council approved a $7,000 loyalty check for staying on the force.Chief Morales tries to spread the word that policing can be a career with impact.“You can go and rescue a family from an abusive husband. You can go and save someone from the trenches of drug addiction. And you can do that each and every day,” he said.But for now, with high crime rates and a tight labor market, recruiting remains an uphill battle.

Violent crime has been on the rise since the start of the pandemic. At the same time, staffing at police departments has been on the decline, leaving big cities scrambling to recruit officers.

In the midst of a crime wave, Stockton California’s police department was understaffed by 100 officers. New Orleans has had so much trouble recruiting officers, the city is hiring civilians to take on some of the work, CBS News reports.

Police departments across the country are facing severe shortages. A nationwide survey last year from the Police Executive Research Forum found an 18% increase in police resignations. The retirement rate jumped 45%.

“The best recruiting tool that you can have, word of mouth,” said Miami Police Chief Manuel Morales.

It’s been a challenge for his department to fill 60 vacancies they currently have, CBS News reports.

“There is the perception of an anti-police sentiment that's growing throughout the nation that discourages some of the applicants,” said Chief Morales

In Florida, a program to boost police recruitment offers a $5,000 signing bonus for officers who move from other states. The bonus is also for recruits joining law enforcement for the first time.

“We want to reward people who are going into this profession. We want to value people that are going into this profession,” said Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

Bonuses like those in Florida are growing more common. In Minneapolis, short 300 officers, the city council approved a $7,000 loyalty check for staying on the force.

Chief Morales tries to spread the word that policing can be a career with impact.

“You can go and rescue a family from an abusive husband. You can go and save someone from the trenches of drug addiction. And you can do that each and every day,” he said.

But for now, with high crime rates and a tight labor market, recruiting remains an uphill battle.

CBS News

[evilgenius]

What do you do, when you might be held accountable for something you do today which tomorrow may be considered wrong? Some of us decide that we ought to consider our own motivations. Are we justified in how we think? Could anything else be going on, regarding our motivations, than what occurs to us as we casually do what we do?

The biggest problem is needing to get control of a situation before anything else is done. The police sometimes do more to victims of crime than the perpetrators of those crimes simply because they had to gain control before they knew what was going on. The focus needs to be on understanding before gaining control. The reason for that is that our human consciousness is predicated upon what we expect.

It's like this, when Cortez first appeared off the coast of South America, the natives literally couldn't see him. They had no concept of great sailing ships. They only saw the Europeans coming when they got into the smaller boats they had to get into in order to cross the distance from the great ships to the shore.

Absent understanding, it leaves room for all of the things we do to compensate for our short comings. Those things like what we do because our parents weren't any good. Those things like what we do because we have been divorced about five times, and aren't fairing any better this time around. Those things we do because we can't communicate. Those things we do because we are in pain and are about to thrash out at anything that moves.

Right now, the Moab, Utah police department is facing a lawsuit. It isn't because of something their officers did, but something they didn't. It turns out to be down to the same reasons, though. They didn't listen to what Gabby Petito said to them about how she was endangered by her boyfriend. Turns out one of the cops was guilty of treating all of the women in his life the same way.

In war, soldiers can treat those they encounter with prejudice. There are sides to a war. You, however, cannot do this with policing. Just because you meet someone you got called out for doesn't mean they are on some other side.

Yes, you can be killed, but you are not a soldier if you are a police person. No one expects you to die, but neither do they expect you to put your knee on somebody's neck and hold them down until they die simply because you needed to gain control first. Maybe you could talk to the guy? Maybe you could expect him to be innocent, although you keep your distance at first? You don't look at the guy's record and make decisions about him either. That also lets you work under your own motivations.

By the same token, look at the inaction that has happened before some of the school shootings. In those cases, there is an example of a reason for prejudice existing. Strangely, perhaps, the cops haven't gone in immediately. In those cases, they've waited long enough for all of the wounded kids to die first, then they go in. Instead, they have all stood around talking to each other, trying to determine when control of the situation has occurred, so that they can act. That's just like how when two people are in a room and smoke comes out of a vent, an actual psychological experiment, neither of them can act because they are both waiting for some consensus.

[C8]

The number of people killed by police is massively dwarfed by the number killed by bad doctors.