[SeaGypsy]

WHAT POINT?
You are coming across as a twit, nutter, poorly read, full of yourself, ignoramous git. You have not 'made' a single point at all.
If you still delusionally think you have a point can you please succinctly spell it out for us?
Try taking the gaffer tape off the connection between your neck and your asshole before trying to extract your head or you might tear something.
This board is as full of different points of view as any meeting of comparitive religionists and athiests; if you can't see that you have not even tried to look.
The one thing we all agree on is the crucial nature of oil production peaking in relation to the nature of the world economy.
If you think conspiracy theory and religeon are more important then rack off to another forum where your views will fit.

[Quinny]

Can I give you some advice. Your attempt to 'avoid revealing' your true agenda has actually totally discredited your ideas.

If you'd have initially been straight and said that you believe that there is actually 'hidden' oil and tptb are manipulating the figures/controlling the market then you would have had an argument on your hands. You might have had some support though because there are some who have sympathy with your thoughts.

In attempt to 'be clever' you've alienated more or less everyone and made yourself look a bit/lot crazy at the same time.

I've never been a conspiracy theorist, but recently have been puzzled at how the economic depression is shaping up. There is definitely some pretty high level negotiations going on, I do however think that these are still mainly in the pursuit of national / self interest not some hidden NWO agenda.

Even if there is a conspiracy it doesn't mean that Peak Oil won't occur, in fact if the world population did fall drastically then it's even more certain we've already met it.

You are either too stubborn or stupid to back down on the statement that Peak Oil won't happen. I think it's the first, but anyone reading your posts on here would be quite justified in thinking the second.

So there you have it. I have been trying to avoid revealing why it is I see things differently, because people automatically think "conspiracy" and turn their minds off, mindlessly. It is unfortunate, because there is overwhelming evidence for it, if one is willing to look. But, my anti-peak oil argument obviously does not make sense without explaining this.

Take it for what you will, if you don't like what I have to say, you can keep personal opinions to yourself, and respond with something more meaningful. If not, then I think my point has been established on this board, and that all I need.

Thank you.

[kublikhan]

Wow, You don't think i know what peak oil is?

Based on what you have been writing, no. If you did understand peak oil you would correct the flaw in your earlier example that Ludi and others pointed out. IE, even if the oil taps shut off tomorrow, we would still have hit peak oil the day before the taps were turned off.

I am having trouble following your argument because it does not seem logical. On the one hand you acknowledge that oil is finite, and we are not getting anymore. On the other hand, you say we will not ever hit a peak in oil production. That is like saying you realize there is only so much water in the glass you are holding, but you can continue to suck out water as long as you want. That makes no sense.

Near as I can figure it, you think TPTB either have secret oil fields that the general public knows nothing about. Or TBTB have already pumped the oil and are holding massive quantities of oil in tanks. There is massive amounts of oil in tanks, but nothing that will shift the peak oil date by any appreciable amount. It is just too difficult and expensive to hold the trillions of barrels of oil in tanks that would be required to make your theory work. So that just leaves hidden oil fields. Is that what you are trying to say? TPTB know about oil fields and are keeping the discovery of them secret? And further, that the amount of oil in these fields is so incredibly large that it will shift the peak of oil by what, 100 years? 1000 years? You seem pretty vague on the specifics.

Could you elaborate on your position a bit more? If it is indeed hidden oil fields you are referring to, where do you think these hidden oil fields are located? How much oil do you believe they contain? Is it light sweet crude, extra heavy, etc.? How far into the future will these hidden oil fields postpone peak oil? Once they hidden oil fields of TPTB hit peak production, would you then admit that the world's oil production has peaked?

I could understand if you said something like "The world has so much oil, that we don't have to worry about a peak in production for at least 10,000 years." It would seem silly to me if you said that, but at least I would understand it. But I don't understand how you can say peak oil is never ever going to happen. It's like pushing toothpaste out of the tube. Sooner or later you will not be able to squeeze out as much as you used to.

[Quinny]

BTW I've read the work you did and I think it's quite good for an undergraduate piece. You are clearly not stupid.

You have either got some evidence to prove your conspiracy or you have faith in some of the conspiracy theories that are around.

If it's the first then share the evidence. If it's the second then I'm sorry but you are showing more signs of religious fervour than most who post here, and you should apologise for the title of your post.

[Ludi]

In that way, TPTB would never allow such a "peak" of oil production to occur such that their system of control would be undermined.

So what you're saying is TPTB will maintain oil production at rates as great as the greatest historic rate of production forever. That is, there will never be less oil produced than the maximum amount of oil historically produced.

Is that what you're saying?

Please clarify.

[Quinny]

I tried to be nice, but RB seems to have disappeared.

[Ludi]

I think he was mainly just communicating very unclearly.....

[raisinbran]

Quinny,

Just to be clear, the original message I wanted to convey was that the general following of Peak Oil has become a basic form of religion. Of course, there are exceptions, not everyone here is a PO zealot/doomer.

I wasn't trying to be clever, avoiding explaining the reason why I don't believe peak oil as some sort of argument strategy, because I didn't want to touch on that reason to begin with. All I wanted was to make my assertion that peak oil was basically incorrect, and it is followed and trusted like a religion. However, it became obvious to me and most of you that I simply cannot make sense without delving into the idea that the "elites" are involved. For the record, in my past posts I suggested early on in threads about the "elites", and I was quickly dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

[raisinbran]

So what you're saying is TPTB will maintain oil production at rates as great as the greatest historic rate of production forever. That is, there will never be less oil produced than the maximum amount of oil historically produced.

Is that what you're saying?

What are you implying? That TPTB invented Peak Oil for their benefit?

Ludi,

If you are willing to at least consider the existence of TPTB, I'm going to break down how I see this world.

-I am going to characterize TPTB
-Explain the Agenda
-Explain the strategies used, and tie in peak oil.


The TPTB
- They have their origins hundreds of years back, operating around the time America was founded

- Using riches, positions of authority, and other perks, people from all backgrounds, all countries, are basically offered these in exchange for their service in some capacity

- They are bound by extraordinarily religious ideals, indoctrinating initiates through various secret societies and their rites and rituals, developing their use of symbology to create an esoteric community

- They are internationalist, meaning that they can be found all over the world, in various positions, ranging from government, media, financial, humanitarian institutions, in nearly every large corporation, performing a wide range of functions

- The vast majority of the members of TPTB have little personal knowledge of the overall agenda they are contributing to, and little knowledge of the functions of other members of TPTB. For this reason it is not fully accurate to call it a massive conspiracy, because the majority of TPTB are unknowingly cooperating

- In general, the higher the position of power, the more aware they are of the grand agenda, and the more willing they are to cooperate with others who share similar ideals. Think G-20 leaders, or Presidents of Central Banks.

- Those at the very top have the full knowledge of the agenda, and are basically managing this large, esoteric network. They are highly religious, and their identity is basically unknown.

- It is not perfect harmony, complete agreement. There are divisions, clashes due to self-interest. There are also unplanned occurrences. These can be mitigated by "identity destruction" as you'll see the occasional assassination (JFK), sex scandal (Spitzor). However, since the end of World War II, there has been a high level of cohesion and unity within this network. It kicked into high gear when the Soviet Union fell. Despite the existence of self-interest, the general direction has stayed course for about 150 years.



The prevailing agenda for TPTB is basically this: to subjugate the masses.

This is progressive, a growing agenda. There has been an gradual increase of control over the masses in a historically short period, the 20th century. Mechanisms of control include:

- Controlling resources: oil, food, water, raw materials
- Controlling labor: issuing enormous debt to everyone, forcing them to work.
- Mass distraction: unbelievable amounts of entertainment, infotainment, trivial pursuits to keep the mind distracted, to minimize independent thought
- Deskilling: destroy practical say-to-day survival skills, so that people will stay dependent on the system

The end goal of the agenda is to establish a one-world government, an entity with global supremacy, the form of ultimate control of the masses. Nations will still exist in their current form, but they will have all agreed to answer to something higher, namely the UN.

The largest obstacle to realizing such a government is people's inborn desire to be free, to have individuality. The one-world government cannot be thrust upon the masses, for the reaction would be too great. Instead the general strategy is gradualism, where the masses and nations are slowly conditioned to be more receptive to this new order, which has been basically the explanation for major events in the past 50 years.

Even with this conditioning, the final push for the New World Order will experience a tremendous amount of resistance. I believe right now that final push is in it's early stages, and the resistance is already being felt. Hence, what I believe to be the next phase, is "Ordo Ab Chao,", or order out of chaos. Generally, the world will have to be SAVED from chaos. People need to be given a reason WHY would should have a one world government. Thus this chaos, although seeming to be completely out of control, is actually ENGINEERED by TPTB.

This chaos is starting with economic "depression". What else is in store is anyone's guess.

Global Warming, Peak Oil, an Alien Invasion all fit the bill for this perceived chaos. They are all threats to the current way of life, they are out of anyone's control, and they will, down the road, necessitate the intervention of some global authority.

As I have said before, Peak Oil is a plausible, scientific, sound theory that does hold merit in the way the world is officially understood. But what I am saying that, just like the movie Matrix, the world operates on very different rules. "Peak Oil, Peak everything" makes little sense when you realize that it is completely controlled. TPTB knows that these resources are finite, that they indeed WILL EXPERIENCE A PEAK, if they allow it to.

However, TPTB won't let it go that far. My belief is that they are going to reduce the world population to a certain size, and fundamentally change the way it runs, so that all that is needed is renewable energy, and finite resources can be abandoned.


There's a saying that goes "Create a problem, provide a solution.". Peak Oil is one of those problems, the solution is world government.

[raisinbran]

I should clarify that the world will experience an "imaginary" peak of oil production. However, all it is is the deliberate reduction of oil output, not a peak due to geological constraints.

I think that is the answer everyone was looking for.

[kublikhan]

As I have said before, Peak Oil is a plausible, scientific, sound theory that does hold merit in the way the world is officially understood. But what I am saying that, just like the movie Matrix, the world operates on very different rules. "Peak Oil, Peak everything" makes little sense when you realize that it is completely controlled. TPTB knows that these resources are finite, that they indeed WILL EXPERIENCE A PEAK, if they allow it to.
However, TPTB won't let it go that far. My belief is that they are going to reduce the world population to a certain size, and fundamentally change the way it runs, so that all that is needed is renewable energy, and finite resources can be abandoned.
There's a saying that goes "Create a problem, provide a solution.". Peak Oil is one of those problems, the solution is world government.

You are still not getting it. Let's assume for the moment everything you said about TPTB is true. They know oil is finite and have plans to switch the world over to alternative energy anytime they please. Say they start doing it this year. The amount of oil that is pumped every year becomes less and less as TPTB switch over to alternative energy. That means the maximum amount of oil pumped in a year occurred this year(or a few years ago). IE we "peaked". Nothing you said contradicts this happening. Peak oil still happened. Now you could argue Peak Oil was a non-event and turned out to be quiet boring because TPTB turned on all of the alternative energy before it became a problem. But Peak Oil still happened.

[Quinny]

RB - Can't you see? IF a reduced population starts using renewables to replace all the oil we're not pumping, and leave lots of oil in the ground - WE WILL ALREADY HAVE REACHED PEAK PRODUCTION!

I don't accept your conspiracy theory, but do beleive that TPBTPTB are manipulating the current economic crisis. IMO if PO was manufactured, it'd have been plastered over the MSM for years and the
public would be all blaming it for the crisis. Although the depression is causing more people to be open minded about PO it's still as welcome as fart in a phonebox in most conversations.

Again belief in the Illuminati conspiracy theory requires more blind faith than believing that a finite raw material will peak one day!

It seems you are truly a resource and technological cornucopian and a financial / social / political conspirationist doomer. That stance must also need considerable faith to maintain.

[SeaGypsy]

Pretty bloody vague raisinbrain.
1stly the iluminati can be directly traced through the Masonic order all the way back to ancient Egypt. Where you got the hair brained idea they appeared during the foundation of the USA I have no clue apart from guessing you have read a few fashionable conspiracy journals.
The fact that there is an intelligence 'controlling things' is irrelevant to peak oil. Far more likely than your religious singular PTB is that the are many and various, competing PTB. Your singular view is fanatical and religious paranoia. Do you really think the Shintoists in charge of Japan, the Athiests in China, Russian Orthodox, Indian Hindu, American Baptists, etc. all secretly get into a daisy chain behind the Masonic Illuminati?
If so I and most on this board would consider you utterly deluded.
Not 1 thing you have said in your attepted descrption of the elaborate manipulation of the NWO has anything to do with Peak Oil.
The only interesting fact relevant to the two areas you are fervently trying to draw together is that TPTB realize PO is real and that they need to depopulate the planet if any of us are to have control over survival. The alternative is Chaos. Personally I am not advocating war (the most popular means of depopulation historically) or Chaos, or illuminati NWO Eugenics.
In short you are still beating around the bush trying to justify the title and purpose of your thread. In doing so you are exposing YOURSELF as a Zealot with an agenda.
Why don't you just pull your stupid argument and do a LOT MORE READING before lambasting us with your teenage rantings?

[vision-master]

C RB............

[SeaGypsy]

The guy did a kindy primer in economics and conspiracy now he's going to tell us all we are zealots?!

[shortonsense]

C RB............

Call me crazy, but if that is a graph of world level production, has anyone noticed that we are using 30 billion a year, not the midget volumes of 12 or 13 shown on that graph?

Boy did the author of THAT thing get it wrong!

[mos6507]

Nobody really cares about statistical peak oil per se. When people stress over identifying global peak production what they are really stressing over is what that will mean to standard of living. If we develop fusion power or thorium nukes and just effortly phase out oil, then yes, we will have peak oil, and nobody will give a damn because our standard of living will not go down. If billions of people die in WWIII or a flu epidemic or runaway global warming then nobody will care that oil production will have peaked because we'll be trying to stay alive through all those other disasters first, after which we may just be back to the stone-age anyway (the mother of all above-ground factors impeding oil production ). Peak oil fears assume that the world as we know it will continue on its current course for the next few decades. Even with the global recession to get through, peak oil doom will remain a clear and present danger, albeit somewhat delayed.

[SeaGypsy]

I nominate Mos for Raisin's Guru. (no insult intended Mos)

[shortonsense]

Nobody really cares about statistical peak oil per se. When people stress over identifying global peak production what they are really stressing over is what that will mean to standard of living. If we develop fusion power or thorium nukes and just effortly phase out oil, then yes, we will have peak oil, and nobody will give a damn because our standard of living will not go down.

So...now that we've recently gone through 2 peak oils....should we notice this decreasing standard of living soon? I was talking with mom yesterday, and because none of us sell real estate or cars, finance real estate or work in the construction industry my entire family hasn't even noticed yet....is actually doing BETTER now because of the gasoline price drops.

Even with the global recession to get through, peak oil doom will remain a clear and present danger, albeit somewhat delayed.

I've given up on peak oil meaning anything, considering the power of demand destruction.