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Peak oil debate

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby Tuike » Sun 04 Jun 2023, 15:34:12

Saudi Arabia to slash oil production again as OPEC+ extends supply curbs -cnn
“The Kingdom [of Saudi Arabia] will implement an additional voluntary cut in its production of crude oil, amounting to one million barrels per day, starting in July for a month that can be extended,” the state-owned Saudi Press Agency said Sunday.

I read elsewhere, KSA produces 10 million barrels of oil per month, so one million is signifigant.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 04 Jun 2023, 15:49:07

Tuike wrote:Saudi Arabia to slash oil production again as OPEC+ extends supply curbs -cnn
“The Kingdom [of Saudi Arabia] will implement an additional voluntary cut in its production of crude oil, amounting to one million barrels per day, starting in July for a month that can be extended,” the state-owned Saudi Press Agency said Sunday.

I read elsewhere, KSA produces 10 million barrels of oil per month, so one million is signifigant.


KSA produces 10 million barrels PER DAY. 1 million per day in cuts in a global market of 80+ million per day is.....1/80= 1.2%. If demand decreases by 1.3%, the cuts are mostly irrelevant, and just designed to balance storage in such a way that the markets won't notice the builds as much and begin dropping the price.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 15 Jun 2023, 13:08:34

A modern sober and current peak oil discussion than the hair on fire nonsense of yesteryear.

Today we deep dive fracking and shale, the energy source that put Peak Oil concerns on the back burner for a decade and a half. According to recent analysis by Goehring and Rozencwajg Shale field production is showing signs of sliding down the backside of Hubbert’s curve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzWGnbI9nw

A page from their research commentary/market blog.

Hubbert's Peak is Here
06/02/2023
Topics: Oil
Share:
The only source of growth over the past decade, the shales, are now beginning to show signs of exhaustion.

In 2019 we detailed our neural network and explained why the Permian Basin would peak later in the decade. In retrospect, we were too conservative.

Productivity in the Permian fell last year for the first time in history.

Our newest commentary, Hubbert’s Peak is Here, looks at what is driving lower productivity in the shales, and why recent trends could predict field exhaustion across the shales.

Download our Q1 2023 commentary for insight into:

- Why the Permian may peak later this year
- Why we remain bullish on natural gas
- Trends that could spell the end of the US dollar as a global reserve currency
- Where commodity markets go from here
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby jato0072 » Thu 15 Jun 2023, 21:13:46

Image

Global Peak Oil may still be in the future. This would explain, in part, why we still have economic growth, even if it is anemic.


Image

Over the last 10 years, OPEC appears to be struggling. Non-OPEC is clearly increasing.


Image

I remember some people at the OIl Drum calling for a bumpy Plateau. It appears to have arrived. The million dollar question is; when does the decline set in? It is looking to be sometime after 2030 absent WW3 or some other catastrophic event.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 16 Jun 2023, 00:13:58

jato0072 wrote:I remember some people at the OIl Drum calling for a bumpy Plateau. It appears to have arrived.

Again. Maybe. In another 2 years it'll be a 20 year old claim after one of the other claims. It always "appears to have arrived". Always will, for those who know the boogie man exists.
jato0072 wrote: The million dollar question is; when does the decline set in?

Or...<sigh>...more growth. You know, like all those other times? There is a reason why 2018 was the 6th claimed or occurred peak oil this century alone...interspersed with bumpy plateaus and almost, shoulda woulda could've been yet another peak claim.
jato0072 wrote: It is looking to be sometime after 2030 absent WW3 or some other catastrophic event.

And with the right price scenario, there is no reason to think it will occur this half century. Such is the future, where there are no facts, but plenty of estimates and guesses and in the case of peak oilers, faith based belief in peak. Tomorrow. And if not tomorrow, the day after. Ad infinitum.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 19 Jun 2023, 17:49:15

jato0072 wrote:Global Peak Oil may still be in the future. This would explain, in part, why we still have economic growth, even if it is anemic.


The economic growth is an illusion fueled by massive increases in debt and by manipulating the statistics. Housing bubbles, stock market bubbles, there is no real wealth growth in any of it, just the illusion that a company like Tesla is worth more than the 4 leading conventional auto makers in the world and the illusion that a crappy pine-frame house on a small block of land is worth a fortune because it's close to a major city. In reality that house is worth a lot less, a fact owners will realize in the years ahead as the plastic pipes split and the glue holding the sheeting on loses its grip. By then the cities will be becoming untenable no doubt due to lack of energy.

In all previous ages the mega cities collapsed when the empires that built them could no longer afford to ship in the vast amounts of food and water etc needed to keep them alive. But today the majority of the worlds population has migrated and bred up in these huge cities and their barren suburbs. Where will their water electricity and food come from without an oil based economy? Very few people will see it coming and very few will escape before the hunger games start because their house there is their only major assert in most cases and they will not want to walk away from it.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby ralfy » Mon 19 Jun 2023, 20:27:40

Also, as pointed out years ago, world oil production per capita peaked in 1979.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 19 Jun 2023, 20:45:01

Sounds about right, world energy consumption per capita peaked around that time as well. I read that when Saudi Arabian oil was discovered, back in the 1930's I believe, they calculated that it would power the world for an additional 1000 years. All based of course on the fact very little oil was being used at the time. Fast forward 70 years and the world's population had exploded and everyone wanted a couple of cars, mountains of plastic, tires made from oil, etc, etc, etc.

Imagine having tires made from the rubber tree like back in the day, that rubber lasts forever nearly. I have rubber here from the 1950's and it's just a supple as the day it was made into cords (old phone handset cords). I also have 5 year old rubber that has stiffened and cracked, useless. That's what the average person is oblivious to, the fact that the products made today are mostly garbage. Still, if the WEF has it's way they will own nothing and be happy. I think Stalin would have said that back in the day lol. You will be happy, or you will go to the Gulag! Under his dictatorship you weren't even allowed to own a shovel.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 20 Jun 2023, 11:43:42

ralfy wrote:Also, as pointed out years ago, world oil production per capita peaked in 1979.

Also, peak oil isn't about per capita, but aggregate volumes. So who gives a hoot. Read the definition. It has a wiki. Learn, amaze your friends and neighbors, and don't ever tell them you fell for Matt Savinar's nonsense.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 24 Jun 2023, 18:28:16

The standard Prius Prime gets 127 MPGe
This is a possible solution, if you can get all the modern cars sold to be efficient hybrids oil consumption will plummet. You get the benefits of electric motors for taking the load on heavy acceleration while having the reliability of a petrol engine for the long haul. "Toyota Prius Prime trim that comes standard with heated and ventilated front seats." Imagine that, the ability to heat your car in Winter without flattening your battery! So glad I did my research and avoided getting sucked into an EV.

I'll look more seriously into these in the future but for now income/petrol prices down here makes it a no-brainer to drive an ICE car.


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https://www.motorbiscuit.com/much-fully ... rime-cost/
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 24 Jun 2023, 20:15:44

theluckycountry wrote:
The standard Prius Prime gets 127 MPGe

I'll look more seriously into these in the future but for now income/petrol prices down here makes it a no-brainer to drive an ICE car. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/much-fully ... rime-cost/

And I think your statement as to why your countrymen and obviously you drive ICE cars makes perfect sense.

Thank goodness those who have brains can swim over over to a nearby island full of people who have them.
Electric vehicle sales accelerate to record highs in New Zealand
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby Tuike » Mon 03 Jul 2023, 15:49:38

Saudi Arabia and Russia curb oil supply again to try to boost prices -cnn

Saudi Arabia — the world’s biggest exporter of crude oil — said it would extend a cut of 1 million barrels a day in its oil production at least until the end of August. The cut, which took effect on Saturday, was initially planned to last for the month of July in an attempt to shore up oil prices.

Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said that his country would voluntarily cut supplies by 500,000 barrels per day in August by cutting exports. Reuters reported, citing Novak’s office, that Russia would reduce production by that amount, deepening a cut of the same size Moscow implemented in March.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby jato0072 » Mon 03 Jul 2023, 16:35:19

Demand destruction due to global recession?
"On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby jawagord » Mon 03 Jul 2023, 16:41:12

AdamB wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:
The standard Prius Prime gets 127 MPGe

I'll look more seriously into these in the future but for now income/petrol prices down here makes it a no-brainer to drive an ICE car. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/much-fully ... rime-cost/

And I think your statement as to why your countrymen and obviously you drive ICE cars makes perfect sense.

Thank goodness those who have brains can swim over over to a nearby island full of people who have them.
Electric vehicle sales accelerate to record highs in New Zealand

Evidence many here don’t read past the headlines of what they post?

Electric and hybrid cars make up a fraction of New Zealand’s overall car fleet, and the rebate scheme is a good start but not the entire solution to the country’s transport woes, one analyst said.

“We have one of the oldest and dirtiest car fleets anywhere in the developed world,” said Craig Renney, chief economist for the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions. “We need an integrated approach to this problem, which also includes decarbonising our public transport fleet.”
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 03 Jul 2023, 18:33:09

Tuike wrote:Saudi Arabia and Russia curb oil supply again to try to boost prices -cnn

Saudi Arabia — the world’s biggest exporter of crude oil — said it would extend a cut of 1 million barrels a day in its oil production at least until the end of August. The cut, which took effect on Saturday, was initially planned to last for the month of July in an attempt to shore up oil prices.

Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said that his country would voluntarily cut supplies by 500,000 barrels per day in August by cutting exports. Reuters reported, citing Novak’s office, that Russia would reduce production by that amount, deepening a cut of the same size Moscow implemented in March.


OPEC and Russia can cut their oil production al they want.....it won't have much effect as long as Biden keeps pulling oil out of the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve week after week to make up for the shortfalls in the oil market.

stocks_of_crude_oil_in_the_strategic_petroleum_reserve#

Joe Biden pulled another million bbls of oil out of the SPR last week, and put it on the market, thereby keeping oil prices down and his poll numbers up. And there is no end in sight to Biden's drawdown of the SPR.

I think Joe deserves some congratulations here......his policy of pumping out the SPR oil has done a great job of keeping US gas prices low. AND, as a side benefit, Joe Biden's personal carbon footprint is now by far the largest of any single person in world history...!!!

Image
Joe needs a big old oil drum added to this picture of "Green Joe" because he is personally responsible for putting hundreds of millions of barrels of oil on the market and millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere over the last year.

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby jato0072 » Mon 03 Jul 2023, 20:24:39

And there is no end in sight to Biden's drawdown of the SPR.


Good point about the SPR. It appears our fearless leader has blown through about half of the SPR. I think Gavin will drain the rest once he is in power.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 03 Jul 2023, 20:37:04

jawagord wrote:

Evidence many here don’t read past the headlines of what they post?

[i]Electric and hybrid cars make up a fraction of New Zealand’s overall car fleet, and the rebate scheme is a good start but not the entire solution to the country’s transport woes, one analyst said.

Depends on what the link was provided for. The claim has been put forward by the forum renowned "can't be bothered to read current events" that folks have stopped buying EVs. The link was about acceleration in those sales at the nearby island of some fine people, with a culture and history to be admired, not places where the locals haven't advanced far enough to build a functioning Ferris wheel.

I have no doubt that EVs don't solve ANY countries transporation woes, be it China, the US, or various Third World backwaters still trying to figure out the "4 wheels and an engine" thing.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby theluckycountry » Wed 05 Jul 2023, 05:29:38

jato0072 wrote:Demand destruction due to global recession?


Or perhaps the producers are in a position now where they can shepard their reserves without fear of being invaded? The nations that will be doing ok in 50 years will be the ones with cheap to extract energy reserves still on hand.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby theluckycountry » Wed 05 Jul 2023, 20:14:46

jawagord wrote:Electric and hybrid cars make up a fraction of New Zealand’s overall car fleet, and the rebate scheme is a good start but not the entire solution to the country’s transport woes, one analyst said.

“We have one of the oldest and dirtiest car fleets anywhere in the developed world,” said Craig Renney, chief economist for the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions. “We need an integrated approach to this problem, which also includes decarbonising our public transport fleet.”


A lot of wealthy people have emigrated to NZ. From America, from China. These are the ones pushing the sales up no doubt, the country as a whole is very poor, limited natural resources, a divided population, lots of crime too, but not by American standards. The poorer people from NZ have been emigrating to Australia in their droves, for decades and decades. They are good citizens too for the most part, an asset to the nation here. For people with money NZ makes sense as a destination. But you need lots of money.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 05 Jul 2023, 22:31:38

theluckycountry wrote:A lot of wealthy people have emigrated to NZ.

And those fleeing the education system on the other island.
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