[Chicagoan]

Peak oil was not a campaign issue. Any politician who told Americans to live like the rest of the world would stand a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected.

But this nation is divided. And it is sectional in nature.



A nation divided cannot deal with the crisis. It would more likely lead to civil war. I believe the nation will break up. The question is will it be peaceful or not. I doubt it will be peaceful.

[Pops]

IMO, the country is no more divided in its beliefs than it has ever been, it’s simply that our beliefs are now used against us in a more insidious way than ever.

There was a time that one party was on the side of the below average, church going, working guy trying to get ahead, and one was for the rich and powerful trying to keep what they had. It was that simple and upfront.

Today it is the same, the only thing that has changed is that the powerful have learned to put an apparently below average guy with a bible out in front while they keep a hand in the little guy's back pocket to get a little more.

So today we have the satisfaction of knowing our children will look back in awe at our commitment to impose our moral values on our neighbors, ensure the financial well being of the few and our total lack of concern for the future they inherited.

[smiley]

I say ship'm to France if they love communism and oppression so much.

Yeah.... and send that Statue of Liberty back to them. Damn communist symbol.

[holmes]

pops you are a good man if i may say.

[Specop_007]

... I say ship'm to France if they love communism and oppression so much.

Well! At least French are more ready for peak oil thanks to years of real government and long term planning by people having more than 80 words in their vocabulary and not looking for advice in the bible on how to lead a country.

A Frenchy speaking

Thats the ONLY thing France has going for it. Well, that and good wine and audio equipment.
Otherwise? Well, not much really.

[pea-jay]

(At least) Two nations we are. The problem is how would we even get the moralistic half to even consider that something is amiss with civilization and then want to try and actually CHANGE it. When you have your base (Repubs I mean) that is counting down to apocalapse so that they can go onto their heavenly reward, peak oil/gas driven crisis only PLAY into their beliefs. I have read and even talked to some of them (devotees) who have no environmental concerns as earthly resources were left by God to be consumed. I mean look at what James Watt (interior secretary to Regean) said some 20 years ago to that effect. When you have a significant population only concerned about the here and now (daily life) because they know that Christ will come and take them a way when the going gets tough, what motivation is that?? Then the other part of that cabal is simply intent on profiting on the demise. Whether or not they buy into PO, the "if there is money to be made, environment be damned, I am going to go make it" philosphy goes a long way to speeding up our demise.

Why worry about peak oil, environmental degradation, or economic ruin when there are gays wanting to get hitched, high schoolers having sex and scientists trying to solve health problems. The real problems with America occur in the bedroom, not with SUV the garage.

These are not my people.

Yuck.

[TheSupplyGuy]

True, you'd think we'd learn from the 20s. Three Republican dominated governments in a row with the motto, "The business of America is business," and "I guarantee a car in every garage and a chicken in every pot." I can't quite remember what happenned after that. Anyway, technically I suppose we're less divided, since at least Bush won the popular vote this time, and by 4 million votes at that(which suprised me). If only my darn generation would get out and vote, maybe Kerry would've had a chance then.

[PhilBiker]

Yeah, it's always better when 100% of the population agrees and there's no dissent.

I think that's called fascism.

No need to split up the country yet, it works better when there's lots of different opinions going on.

[Clouseau2]

(Copied from another thread)

There was a lot of talk about this. I agree, I could finally have a government that has my values ...

Here is what the map would look like:

http://house.style.net/usa.jpg

We in the United States of Canada would get the tar sands, Hollywood, Microsoft, Wall street & Broadway. Jesusland would get to keep Wal-mart, NASCAR, wheat, corn & oil fields.

They could have a fundamentalist Christian theocracy, abolish the minimum wage, teach creatonism and elect Jerry Falwell as President. They could invade every muslim country on the planet.

We could have universal healthcare, a more progressive tax system, high fuel taxes encouraging alternative fuel development and equal rights for gays & lesbians.

I'd probably want the red states to give up their nu-ku-lar weapons first though, the thought of Falwell with his finger on the button is kind of scary.

[Clouseau2]

Forgot that I could just include the image:

[jesus_of_suburbia_old]

What is the United States of Canada going to eat?

[lostech]

We would have California, remember, which is a huge food producer. They also grow a lot of grain in Canada. Even upstate NY has quite a bit of farming going on..

We could probably do fine if we just had an expectation that beef and pork would be rare. We would need to build some chicken farms, having lost Arkansas.

[Sencha]

I would love it if the country split up. I'm so sick of Christian fundamentalists trying to impose their will and values on everyone else. That's just wrong. I hate the fact that someone from a state that was its own independent country once (Texas), some redneck, country bumpkin can tell people from the original United States (New England) what we can and cannot do.

Those theocratic idiots think everyone wants to be a part of their lame religion. Well sorry, we don't all give a shit about God and we don't all think that there is a heaven or a hell.

[Guest]

I wouldn't say that the split in the country is geographic, although looking at a map makes it look that way. The split is more urban/rural. Even in the so-called "red" states the cities usually go democratic, and the blue states have large red patches outside the cities. I would speculate that this is because the workings of government are more evident in the cities while in rural areas people feel that they're paying taxes and getting nothing in return (I say "feel" that way because they get farm subsidies up the wazoo, social seciruty, medicare, etc). So gun violence is a problem in the cities, but rural areas see gun control as an intrusion on personal liberty, there are more gays in the cities so if you live there you are more likely to be exposed to it and come to believe that all people deserve equal treatment, etc. These things seem like a cultural divide, but we need to see why people end up with the culture they have, and this depends on the environment one inhabits. I think that as soon as we realize that the divisions in the country are "environmental" in the sense that what you see as a problem in need of a solution depends on your environment in the rural/urban split, the sooner we will stop being morally antagonistic towards one another and more accomodating. The suburbs are split between these two poles. The country is nowhere near as divided as it was before the civil war where Lincoln wouldn't get a single vote in entire counties; Kerry still got over 30% in even the reddest of red states, and usually over 40%.

[Yavicleus]

You guys need to do an internet search on "John Titor".

Dude, I happened to have seen a play based on the John Titor predictions called time traveler 00.

http://www.johntitor.com/ is the website where you can find most of the prophet Titor's rantings.

Who knows if it will come true or not. If so, get your guns and head to the hills fellas, because there will be nukes going off in the cities!

[Guest]

Average IQ by state:
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

[pip]

None of us theocratic idiots are trying to force our beliefs on you. Nobody is going to make you go to church on Sunday. Your problem is that there is more of us than there are of you and this is a democracy. Don't blame me for that.

[Guest]

As Lincoln realized, the principle of succession is really anarchy. Divisions will pop up again in any subdivided area, which would then seek to subdivide even further. The only answers are constitutional democracy, where you learn to live with the will of the majority, totalitarianism where all must tow the same line, or anarchy where life is "nasty, brutal, and short" (Hobbes). I can't stand that Bush won, and intend to do all I can in future elections to see that candidates that I support are elected, but all this succession nonsense is just sour grapes.

[Felix]

None of us theocratic idiots are trying to force our beliefs on you. Nobody is going to make you go to church on Sunday. Your problem is that there is more of us than there are of you and this is a democracy. Don't blame me for that.

Really? Check out what the Catholic Church forced on the Spanish people, both during the 16th-18th centuries, and following the Civil War. Anyone not going to church was either a heretic or a communist; an unpleasant thing to be in those times.

I know that these were dago-speaking, Mary-worshipping Catholics. But is there really that much of a difference in attitude between a Baptist Minister and a Catholic bishop? How long before those not going to church in the Bible Belt are labelled as America-haters or terror-supporters? Thankfully, this isn't my problem; God bless atheism and a secular society

[Chicagoan]

Ya'll shudda shut the fuck up and left better alone.

I agree completely. The civil war was a complete waste of human life. But at least slavery was abolished.

None of us theocratic idiots are trying to force our beliefs on you. Nobody is going to make you go to church on Sunday. Your problem is that there is more of us than there are of you and this is a democracy. Don't blame me for that.

Smaller democracies work best. This country is too large for everyone to have the same values. If the country was split up, everyone would be happier.