[vision-master]

Looks like Indiana is getting into the city bankruptcy business. "Bill Would Allow Indiana Cities To Declare Bankruptcy" from article, this would allow a state manager to take control of the city or town, and cut spending, lay off and dismantle pensions etc. http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... 043/-1/rss

I assume you favor the Feds bailing out all city/state pensions that are threatened due to bankruptcy. Where will the money come from?

Tax-payers from the cities/ state.

[Serial_Worrier]

No serial worrier, I think that the spending has to stop, until the books are in balance again. If that means laying off public sector workers, I guess that is what would have to happen. If it means ending funding for special programs, then that is what should be done. Governments have been on a mad spending spree for 40 years, using tax dollars to buy votes. If the public sector workers have to have their contracts renegotiated then guess what, welcome to the real world. If the military has to close 800 of its 1000 bases, then guess what, get it done. No money means No money. The cheque has bounced. The Gold Card has been denied. The jig is up.

Laying off public sector workers def saves money, because they go from unemployment benefits down to welfare after a time which are far less costly then their current salaries. But let's not pretend that more then a small % of them will find private sector work. They're parasites.

[Serial_Worrier]

Looks like Indiana is getting into the city bankruptcy business. "Bill Would Allow Indiana Cities To Declare Bankruptcy" from article, this would allow a state manager to take control of the city or town, and cut spending, lay off and dismantle pensions etc. http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... 043/-1/rss

I assume you favor the Feds bailing out all city/state pensions that are threatened due to bankruptcy. Where will the money come from?

Tax-payers from the cities/ state.

like in CA? they're already bankrupted. Everyone's mortgage is under-water and carrying huge piles of credit card debt and NO savings. The corporations are already taxed to death, there is no more money.

[vision-master]

Laying off public sector workers def saves money, because they go from unemployment benefits down to welfare after a time which are far less costly then their current salaries. But let's not pretend that more then a small % of them will find private sector work. They're parasites.

Yeah, let's all work for wally world wages.

BTY, how's that retirement looking for ya?

[Keith_McClary]

No serial worrier, I think that the spending has to stop, until the books are in balance again. If that means laying off public sector workers, I guess that is what would have to happen.

So in what order would you::
- lay off cops, street maintenance, etc.
- default on worker pensions
- default on muni bonds (owned by Norwegian retirees ??).
- sell off city hall, parks
- other

[Serial_Worrier]

Laying off public sector workers def saves money, because they go from unemployment benefits down to welfare after a time which are far less costly then their current salaries. But let's not pretend that more then a small % of them will find private sector work. They're parasites.

Yeah, let's all work for wally world wages.

BTY, how's that retirement looking for ya?

My retirement is my affair, not yours or society's.

[Serial_Worrier]

No serial worrier, I think that the spending has to stop, until the books are in balance again. If that means laying off public sector workers, I guess that is what would have to happen.

So in what order would you::
- lay off cops, street maintenance, etc.
- default on worker pensions
- default on muni bonds (owned by Norwegian retirees ??).
- sell off city hall, parks
- other

- soak the rich(back to 1955 tax rates)
- one-time asset tax on millionaires, say 25%

[vision-master]

No serial worrier, I think that the spending has to stop, until the books are in balance again. If that means laying off public sector workers, I guess that is what would have to happen.

So in what order would you::
- lay off cops, street maintenance, etc.
- default on worker pensions
- default on muni bonds (owned by Norwegian retirees ??).
- sell off city hall, parks
- other

You can't default on public workers pensions, they are covered and guaranteed by State Statues/ laws.

[Serial_Worrier]

You can't default on public workers pensions, they are covered and guaranteed by State Statues/ laws.

Which can be invalidated by the courts or legislature.

[mattduke]

Bill would allow Indiana cities to declare bankruptcy

A plan backed by Gov. Mitch Daniels would allow local governments in Indiana to ask for a state takeover and declare bankruptcy if necessary.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... 043/-1/rss

[the48thronin]

You can't default on public workers pensions, they are covered and guaranteed by State Statues/ laws.

Which can be invalidated by the courts or legislature.

From the article quoted earlier

Then Prichard did something that pension experts say they have never seen before: it stopped sending monthly pension checks to its 150 retired workers, breaking a state law requiring it to pay its promised retirement benefits in full.

Or like Pritchard Alabama has done you simply don't send them checks ( 16 months now without a check) and you ignore the court order compelling you to send the checks ( 8 months since the court order was signed.. and then what? No one arrested, no one forced at the point of a bayonette to write a check, and the retired fire marshall dies alone in his home with no running water and no lights while others file bankruptsey and have their homes and autos repossessed.. Meanwhile you simply don't send the checks.

[SeaGypsy]

vision-master wrote:
You can't default on public workers pensions, they are covered and guaranteed by State Statues/ laws

I hear this all the time from my many American expat friends in Asia. What they don't seem to understand is that in the long run the US debt weight must either force general default or at best graduated hyper inflation. This means you may still get a check but it will buy a lot less consumables than it did. You may soon be able to buy a car or a sack of potatoes for a monthly SS check. Housing is becoming much cheaper, to rent or buy. Anything involving world equity pricing, especially oil derivatives and inputs is going to go way up. This is the softest possibility. There is absolutely no way on earth enough resources to keep these entitlements at current levels in real terms.

[Tyler_JC]

- soak the rich(back to 1955 tax rates)
- one-time asset tax on millionaires, say 25%

And set off the greatest capital flight in world history.

The minute something like that is even talked about in Congress, trillions of dollars would flood out of the US into private bank accounts in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland. Trillions more would NOT be invested by foreigners in US assets and the entire economy would collapse in a matter of weeks.

One of America's primary advantages over its competitors is its strong protection of property rights and its low tax regime.

If you remove that, America becomes Argentina very quickly.

In 1950, where could you invest your money and expect a high risk-adjusted return? What about in 2010?

[Serial_Worrier]

And set off the greatest capital flight in world history.

The minute something like that is even talked about in Congress, trillions of dollars would flood out of the US into private bank accounts in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland. Trillions more would NOT be invested by foreigners in US assets and the entire economy would collapse in a matter of weeks.

One of America's primary advantages over its competitors is its strong protection of property rights and its low tax regime.

If you remove that, America becomes Argentina very quickly.

In 1950, where could you invest your money and expect a high risk-adjusted return? What about in 2010?

Hey I"m just parroting wild-eyed lefty rants on the issue. Don't shoot the messenger!

[Keith_McClary]

Here's the legalities in the US:
Municipal Bankruptcy: State Authorization Under the Federal Bankruptcy Code

[Serial_Worrier]

Here's the legalities in the US:
Municipal Bankruptcy: State Authorization Under the Federal Bankruptcy Code

Necessity will overturn any legal codes....

[SeaGypsy]

Here's the legalities in the US:
Municipal Bankruptcy: State Authorization Under the Federal Bankruptcy Code

So the Munis are waiting for legal action and the States are piling up applications probably under secret order from the Fed; a trial run for a much broader default perhaps?

[Pretorian]

No serial worrier, I think that the spending has to stop, until the books are in balance again. If that means laying off public sector workers, I guess that is what would have to happen. If it means ending funding for special programs, then that is what should be done. Governments have been on a mad spending spree for 40 years, using tax dollars to buy votes. If the public sector workers have to have their contracts renegotiated then guess what, welcome to the real world. If the military has to close 800 of its 1000 bases, then guess what, get it done. No money means No money. The cheque has bounced. The Gold Card has been denied. The jig is up.

Laying off public sector workers def saves money, because they go from unemployment benefits down to welfare after a time which are far less costly then their current salaries. But let's not pretend that more then a small % of them will find private sector work. They're parasites.

most people are

[Revi]

The problem is that when the checks stop people get really angry. I wonder what the plan is when they stop sending the checks out? That would really create problems. I think they will use the softer, inflationary route.
It would be a lot less contentious.

If the price of commodities is any guide they may have started already.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/27/markets ... /index.htm

[deMolay]

Check out this new site. "Ill. is Broke" If you click on the spread sheets for pensions for Public employees, you will see why they are broke. Policeman, Firefighters, Labour can retire at 50 and be paid out over $1M in pension benefits for each retiree. Meanwhile the tax revenue is collapsing and the Gov. Wants to borrow another 20B this year to keep the game going. Ill. is now well over 100B in debt. Totally unsustainable. Tough decisions ahead. Do you keep paying the millionaire pensions, and quit maintaining infastructure like bridges, roads, schools etc. And keep raising taxes and seizing property to maintain these super pensions. http://www.illinoisisbroke.com/pensionmillionaires.aspx