[TomSaidak]

My apologies for not posting here first. I landed here via google and responded elsewhere before seeing this.

Hi!

I am rather passionate about green energy and am looking forward to an interesting education.

Tom Saidak

[Taco]

Welcome to the jungle...

There's a lot to talk about, just make you sure you know what you're getting yourself into when you post with these guys.

[Ferretlover]

Welcome to PeakOil.com, Tom. Please read the Code of Conduct (link in the menu bar to the left), and you will find the thread, "How to get around this site without losing your mind" (in the Welcome forum) quite helpful.
If you have any questions not answered by the above two items, please feel free to ask any Moderator.
And, yes, Taco is correct. We have our fair share of characters posting here!

[TomSaidak]

Thanks for the warnings.

Welcome to the jungle?? Hey Lucy - I'm home!!

I have degrees in psychology and counseling. Plus I teach in middle school. I are a professional character.......

And "Yes, Mom", I read the rules of conduct.....

[Carlhole]

;)

Thanks for the warnings.

Welcome to the jungle?? Hey Lucy - I'm home!!

I have degrees in psychology and counseling. Plus I teach in middle school. I are a professional character.......

And "Yes, Mom", I read the rules of conduct.....

Ok, Mr. Psychologist, here's a little exercise for you...

Search around and find an interesting article about some new idea in green energy and how it will be used extensively in the future and how it will help us get off of fossil fuels.

Post it. And make a few positive remarks about about how encouraging a development it is.

Observe the sort of responses you get.

[Aaron]

;) Thanks for the warnings.
Welcome to the jungle?? Hey Lucy - I'm home!!
I have degrees in psychology and counseling. Plus I teach in middle school. I are a professional character.......
And "Yes, Mom", I read the rules of conduct.....

Ok, Mr. Psychologist, here's a little exercise for you...
Search around and find an interesting article about some new idea in green energy and how it will be used extensively in the future and how it will help us get off of fossil fuels.
Post it. And make a few positive remarks about about how encouraging a development it is.
Observe the sort of responses you get.

Now now... play nice with your new playmate.

[TomSaidak]

"Ok, Mr. Psychologist, here's a little exercise for you...
Search around and find an interesting article about some new idea in green energy and how it will be used extensively in the future and how it will help us get off of fossil fuels.
Post it. And make a few positive remarks about about how encouraging a development it is. "

Does my venting in Thermal Depolymerization count??

"Now now... play nice with your new playmate."

MOM!!! Carlhole is picking on me again!!! ;P

Two silly questions.....
1) How do you get those nifty quote boxes??
2) How do I get the smiley faces showing on the left of my screen inserted into my posts?

[Sixstrings]

I landed here via google and responded elsewhere before seeing this.

Ah, the Googlemonster has brought us fresh meat. "Peakoil.com -- you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave."

Just joking.. welcome to the forum.

[BigTex]

Welcome.

Lots of interesting ideas floating around here.

[Ferretlover]

"Now now... play nice with your new playmate."

MOM!!! Carlhole is picking on me again!!! ;P
Two silly questions.....
1) How do you get those nifty quote boxes??
2) How do I get the smiley faces showing on the left of my screen inserted into my posts?

Carlhole, like a few others, will attempt to push your buttons. Just smile, pat him on the head, and go about your business.

I will PM the info on quotes and emoticons.

[TomSaidak]

"Now now... play nice with your new playmate."

MOM!!! Carlhole is picking on me again!!! ;P
Two silly questions.....
1) How do you get those nifty quote boxes??
2) How do I get the smiley faces showing on the left of my screen inserted into my posts?

Carlhole, like a few others, will attempt to push your buttons. Just smile, pat him on the head, and go about your business.

I will PM the info on quotes and emoticons.

As you can see, I have figured out the nifty quotes box. Now for the smilies.... javascript:emoticon(':roll:')

Oo, oo.... Did I just figure it out.. Hmmm...

Testing, testing:





KAPLAH!!!!!

As for peeps trying to get my goat, my TDP post says it best. Potshots will be dealt with on whim. Warning: I am an inveterate punster. My intention is to either get educated or have fun.

[Heineken]

Heineken gives you his best beery welcome, Tom.

Green energy has a role, but the problems always are, Is it really green, i.e., harmless across the board; is it actually net-energy positive when all required inputs are fully accounted for; and will it in its aggregate forms be enough to offset fossil fuel depletion?

Many of us here tend to answer no on all counts, and argue instead for a rational powering down and downsizing of civilization. However I do see green energy as an extremely valid part of a downsizing, should we ever be so rational as to undertake one.

[Iaato]

Welcome, Tom. It sounds like you enjoy people. We need more counselor types on this here internet. Stick around.

[TomSaidak]

Thanks for the warm welcomes.

Iaato wrote:

We need more counselor types on this here internet. Stick around.

Did I mention I charge for referreeing?

Heineken gives you his best beery welcome..

Beeerrrrrr............

Heineken wrote:

Green energy has a role, but the problems always are, Is it really green, i.e., harmless across the board; is it actually net-energy positive when all required inputs are fully accounted for; and will it in its aggregate forms be enough to offset fossil fuel depletion?

Many of us here tend to answer no on all counts, and argue instead for a rational powering down and downsizing of civilization. However I do see green energy as an extremely valid part of a downsizing, should we ever be so rational as to undertake one.

I respectfully disagree with downsizing for a number of reasons. With technologies such as TDP, CDP and CSP, wind and water turbines of various sorts, plus all the assorted PV technologies, we actually have the technology to go green wholesale. The real question becomes how to get there. Everyone is waiting for the "magic (insert noun of choice here)" to arrive. Also, if all else fails, it is not in human nature to "retreat". To date, the best birth control on the planet is the university track. Populations that go that route tend to dramatically drop their birth rates as getting more then 2 kids through college is expensive. I am still exploring the boards trying to find a Policy area. If it doesn't exist, mayhap we should start one? Regardless of the path, conservation and efficiency has to be part of the mix, and treading lighter on the planet is a good idea.

[Heineken]

. . . it is not in human nature to "retreat".

In some cases, a retreat is an advance. All good generals know that. Those who have ignored it have famously failed throughout history.

We cannot sustain our gigantic civilization as is, much less the earth's life support system with our civilization weighing it down, and all things show this. We will either downsize rationally and in a phased manner, or be forced into it chaotically and painfully.

[TomSaidak]

Heineken wrote:

In some cases, a retreat is an advance. All good generals know that. Those who have ignored it have famously failed throughout history.

Some general whose name escapes me at some point once said something to the effect: I cannot be a great general as I have never had to lead a retreat..

I agree about changes in how we conduct business are needed. What sticks in my craw is the word "downsizing". If that means I cannot fence in the Bahamas at the Veteran's World Cup, then I am agin it. If it means I have two PHEV Prius vehicles instead of two H3 Hummers, I am all for it. In 1000 years, ecovillages may be the preference as opposed to megapolis living, but I do not see the need for that per se in the next 100 years IF we start making the right choices now. If one of the changes is we lose the NFL because we as a society are no longer willing to pay athletes 10's of millions of dollars to play a game, I can live with that as well. It is a matter of picking our priorities, and paying concious attention to the environment.

Ah well, I shall sally forth and see what I may see....

[Heineken]

Downsizing means a much smaller human footprint on the planet, forever.

This could entail painful changes for some. Without the ability to sacrifice, we have no future as a group.

Perhaps you could take a sailing vessel to your fencing match in the Bahamas, as in days of yore. Then you could practice on deck.

[TomSaidak]

Interesting thought that about sailing.

Any major changes for large sailing hulls? And would the canals be operating? Hull speed is a function of hull length. I think clipper ships peaked at or about 18 knots. San Francisco to the Bahamas WITH the canal would be about what, 25 days? Without the canals, it would be about 70 days one way. In either case, I don't think I could afford the room and board costs. On the other hand, if I could catch a train to Florida or Charleston, it would be what, 5 days? That I might be able to afford.

But it would be awesome wicked to do!

[mos6507]

San Francisco to the Bahamas WITH the canal would be about what, 25 days? Without the canals, it would be about 70 days one way. In either case, I don't think I could afford the room and board costs. On the other hand, if I could catch a train to Florida or Charleston, it would be what, 5 days? That I might be able to afford.

I don't think anybody's jobs will allow people to take such long vacations. When high speed travel is gone, we're going to be severely limited in where we travel for recreation. Only the rich or people taking a long sabbatical between jobs will take such trips.

[TomSaidak]

mos6507 wrote:
I

don't think anybody's jobs will allow people to take such long vacations. When high speed travel is gone, we're going to be severely limited in where we travel for recreation. Only the rich or people taking a long sabbatical between jobs will take such trips.

Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I am not sure how true that is. John Brunner's "The Listeners" suggest that changes in attitudes could possibly reflect larger changes in how travel times play out. I can imagine scenarios where major cargo is done via working sail, but passenger travel is still fast tracked. One such scenario would be using rail travel for within continent, and air travel for intercontinental. Within those scenarios I can see where international travel would still be possible for vacations. Another way to look at it is Peak Oil versus Peak Conservation. We are at the crossroads of choices. What choices we make will determine where we end up. Like that's new news.......