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Movie: The "Collapse" Thread (merged)

A forum to either submit your own review of a book, video or audio interview, or to post reviews by others.

Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 02:36:19

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I said in my first post from Toronto that you could feel the anxiety of the economic crisis in any number of the films here. Yet even as I wrote that, I could never have guessed I’d end up seeing a movie that would tap into those anxieties with the power and terror of Collapse. It’s one of the few true buzz films of the festival (by the time I got to it, I’d heard a dozen people talking it up), yet the movie, which is 82 minutes long, consists of nothing more than an on-camera interview with Michael Ruppert, a former Los Angeles police officer who became a rogue investigative reporter and author.

A bluntly unassuming and rather plain-looking man in his late fifties, Ruppert sits in what looks like a brick bunker and talks about where he thinks the United States is now headed. It is not a pretty picture, but it’s not a naive one, either. Ruppert has more than a perception — he has a welter of facts, a restless and skeptical intelligence, a grasp of history that is professorial in the best sense, and an ability to slice and dice the platitudes of mainstream media. He’s like Noam Chomsky as a gripping pundit of doom. The drama of the movie, and it’s intense, is that even if you want to argue with him (and you will, since he’s predicting very bad things), you can’t dismiss what he’s saying.

He starts out with a trump card of credibility. In 2006, Ruppert predicted the economic crisis — I mean, he really saw it coming. We’re shown clips of him from that year, and there’s nothing vague or abstract about his statements. He glimpsed the whole house of cards in prophetic detail: the sub-prime mortgage crisis, the inevitable breakdown of a system built, like a gold-leaf castle in the air, on leverage. His astonishingly acute foresight seizes your attention, and so you’d better believe that you’re sitting up and listening as he starts to talk about “peak oil,” the term that’s used to describe the fact that the majority of oil reserves on the planet have, in all likelihood, already been depleted, and that the remaining supply will now perpetually be in decline. (He cites reports that the Saudis have resorted to off-shore drilling — infinitely more costly than on-shore — as evidence that they’ve begun to see the bottom of their wells.)

Okay, so what does this mean? Ruppert explains how oil is entrenched in everything we have — how it doesn’t just run our automobiles but is the basis of our plastics, our food supply, our vast energy-devouring culture. Without it, he says, society will begin to stop functioning as it now does — that is, it will decay. You may want to fight him on that point, but he’s got arguments for everything — his decimation of what he calls the myth of alternative energy is particularly provocative, and ominous — and what his statements add up to is this: The way of life that America, and much of the rest of the world, has known is now ending. The “economic crisis” isn’t just a bad patch; it’s the finally visible — and inevitable — symptom of a much greater underlying instability. And what’s coming? A society, Ruppert says, that is going to have to fundamentally re-imagine how it lives if it intends to survive. He invokes the Titanic, his prognostication teetering between dire warning and doom.

http://movie-critics.ew.com/2009/09/16/toronto-collapse/
http://www.collapsemovie.com/COLLAPSEMOVIE/reviews.htm

Hm.. very interesting. They've filmed a doomer doing nothing but talking for 82 minutes.. and it has people feeling shaken to their core.

(I hadn't heard that info before about the Saudi's drilling offshore now.. anyone know anything about that? That does sound ominous)
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 03:19:40

If enough of these doomer films make it into the mainstream perhaps some of the sheeple will actually WAKE UP. Or not.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 07:17:31

We better hope the majority don't wake up. There are not enough exits.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby Homesteader » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 09:43:11

Cloud9 wrote:We better hope the majority don't wake up. There are not enough exits.



+1

The siren's song "if enough of us wake up something can be done to keep the dream going" is very strong.
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill

Beliefs are what people fall back on when the facts make them uncomfortable.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 10:58:07

Cloud9 wrote:We better hope the majority don't wake up. There are not enough exits.


Agreed.
Imagine if everyone realized how screwed they were? How suddenly they are NOT going to be able to enjoy a life of comfort and well fed luxury? How poverty, hardship and inconvenience awaits them and their family and friends. IMHO it will just induce a form of mass denial similar to what we have seen recently.

If they did actually all want what they needed, there would be a rural RE boom. I have seen quiet evidence of this in a few places. I have seen rural folks with side long glances and puzzled expressions about why city folks want land.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 10:59:39

DoomWarrior wrote:If enough of these doomer films make it into the mainstream perhaps some of the sheeple will actually WAKE UP. Or not.


I gave up on that line of thinking after Earth 2100 on ABC seemed to come and go with barely a ripple.

Not that I don't think people should try to raise awareness, but it doesn't matter how high profile these things are or how much internal logic they have. Most people won't believe doom until they're living it.

That being said, I'd say the level of buy-in to doom depends on the flavor. IMHO, it runs in this order:

1) US Debt Doom
2) Global Warming Doom
3) Peak Oil Doom
4) Population Overshoot Doom
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby JohnDenver » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 11:25:37

Sixstrings wrote:He starts out with a trump card of credibility. In 2006, Ruppert predicted the economic crisis — I mean, he really saw it coming. We’re shown clips of him from that year, and there’s nothing vague or abstract about his statements. He glimpsed the whole house of cards in prophetic detail: the sub-prime mortgage crisis, the inevitable breakdown of a system built, like a gold-leaf castle in the air, on leverage. His astonishingly acute foresight...


Time once again for a Mike Ruppert reality check...

While I had serious doubts about America's ability to recover from Katrina, I am certain that - barring divine intervention - the United States is finished; not only as a superpower, but possibly even as a single, unified nation with the arrival of Hurricane Rita.
-- Mike Ruppert, September 21, 2005

Link

Mike Ruppert Jan. 9, 2009
*I can pretty much bet that as many as 50-75 new Executive Orders will be announced within 72 hours of the inauguration.


*I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a couple of days with 700+ point losses in the Dow over the next ten days to two weeks.


*Reports have suggested that China may dump half of its $1.4 trillion dollar holdings within the next two months.


*As I correspond with a number of key friends and researchers around the world we have all concluded that it may be just a matter of weeks (yikes!) before we start seeing major disruptions in everyday life.


*Soon it will be necessary for me to look at topics which we've mentioned in passing. These include civil unrest, camps, emergency communications and preparedness as the threat of societal breakdown becomes imminent. It's time to start doing that.
Link

Mike's predictions form earlier this year:
-"The end" of the U.S. economy by March or April.
-Gold $2000 an oz. by March
-People starving and screaming for food by August
-Conditions 10x worse than The Great Depression by August
-Oil above $100, gas above $3.00 by Summer.

Link

Astonishingly acute foresight, my ass. This is just more of the usual prediction fraud: hide the failures, play up the successes. Ruppert is a complete wingnut "truther" with a long history of BS predictions, extreme paranoia and mental health issues.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby JohnDenver » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 12:25:16

Cloud9 wrote:We better hope the majority don't wake up. There are not enough exits.


Mike Ruppert isn't going to wake up anybody. I can discredit the guy with 5 minutes of half-assed net surfing. Imagine what you could do if you really dug into it. You could write a 300 page book on Ruppert's bogus predictions and delusions and mental breakdowns. And totally discredit peak oil in the process! <tinfoil>Perhaps that's why Ruppert was selected for this role? Set up the clown and knock him down to discredit the whole movement. That's exactly the sort of operation the FBI would pull. They could finally get Ruppert after all these years of tapping his phones, and bury peak oil in the process. Operation "Two Birds with One Stone".</tinfoil>

Of course the fact that he's a nut is probably what makes the movie so interesting. I'm definitely keen to see it. Crazy people are fascinating. Have you ever watched interviews with Charles Manson, or this amazing 1967 footage of L. Ron Hubbard?

There's a beautiful comment on the movie's website:
"There's also a strong suggestion that Ruppert has walled himself into his own point-of-view by accepting only the information that supports his sweeping theories. And in several immensely poignant moments, we can also see an angry, lonely, vulnerable man whose life epitomizes the title as much as the globe does."
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 13:34:50

Do some people think voyeurism of the mentally ill is a form of entertainment? Mental illness is no joke. It is not something decent people find amusing. We are all susceptible, as are our friends and family. The degree of suffering it can bring is real and profound. Much of it is not very treatable.

On the other hand, accusing those with uncommon points of view with being "crazy" just to discredit them, that is pretty low and desperate-IMHO. If you have rational, fact based rebuttals, make them. Smear tactics should be beneath all of us.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 19 Sep 2009, 20:12:51

JohnDenver wrote:Time once again for a Mike Ruppert reality check...

Astonishingly acute foresight, my ass. This is just more of the usual prediction fraud: hide the failures, play up the successes. Ruppert is a complete wingnut "truther" with a long history of BS predictions, extreme paranoia and mental health issues.


I'm glad we still have a couple skeptics like you left on the forum, otherwise we'd become a groupthink circle where everyone just validates each other.

Some critics are actually talking oscar for this film, so it must be pretty riveting. After reading the points you made JD, I'll make a prediction.. the MSM will trot out those same points to discredit this man and thereby discredit peak oil. Science is science, and I think it's never a good thing to reduce it to one man (such as Al Gore with global warming).

It reduces the entire debate to that one man, and his personal credibility. This is fallacious reasoning, of course, but that's how most people think.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby Uranian22 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 10:23:38

The worst way to go will be by starvation. I never had children; the smartest thing I never done.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 10:43:02

Sixstrings wrote:the MSM will trot out those same points to discredit this man and thereby discredit peak oil.


That is why I tend to be as ultra-critical of the credibility of doom peddlers as JD. Having the right message delivered by the wrong person only results in the public throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 11:33:20

mos6507 wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:the MSM will trot out those same points to discredit this man and thereby discredit peak oil.


That is why I tend to be as ultra-critical of the credibility of doom peddlers as JD. Having the right message delivered by the wrong person only results in the public throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


IMHO-The public cannot understand peak oil due to a lack of imagination, an inability to think critically and a collective failure to learn from history.
It is not simply delivery by the wrong person. Jimmy Carter gave a famous peak oil speech. Few listened when there was time to act.

http://www.peakoil.tv/videos.php?id=32
Last edited by hardtootell-2 on Sun 20 Sep 2009, 17:10:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 13:26:51

Ah-I was not my intention to slag anyone on this board by what I said above. I just wanted to point out that for various reasons, the public cannot grasp what is "comin at em".

I think it is great that you have made a positive contribution to the future Pstar. I have made much more modest efforts via volunteering but I hope I can be of greater service to humanity in the future. I think they are going to need all the help they can get.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 17:03:18

hardtootell-2 wrote:It is not simply delivery by the wrong person. Jimmy Carter gave a famous peak oil speech. Few listened when there was time to act.


Carter is a good example because the critical details of his assessment were wrong. Sure, we should have moved off of oil 30 years ago, but not because we were already post-peak the way he implied. He did not pull out the kind of charts that Roscoe Bartlett does to explain Hubbert's curve. If he had, his predictions would have placed peak oil close to the year 2000. Then he'd have been left to justify moving off of oil due to the geopolitical issues of foreign oil dependency (think Carter Doctrine) and the latency required to do so, but not because global geological peak oil doom was imminent. (Think Hirsch report). He overplayed his hand, and was excoriated after oil prices tanked. It's totally a chicken little, boy who cried wolf, fool me once, fool me twice sort of thing. You must be very very careful when you make pronouncements and predictions.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 17:11:41

pstarr wrote:"If the 'doomers' were more effective, had a better argument, were smarter than the oil companies and Saudi Arabians etc., than everyone would understand the problems and we would fix them."


Your problem is that you see doomers as the white hats and everyone else as the black hats. And so you aren't allowing for self-criticism. I don't think anybody is above criticism. Considering that doomers are the ambassadors of doom to the general public, if they screw up, it sets everything back perhaps even more than if they kept their mouths shut. So I am not saying this to bash doomers. I am saying this because I don't want to see stuff like the recent spate of denialist editorials come out and so easily wipe away our gains in public awareness.

Having doomers make these bad calls is kind of like the way Reverend Wright or Farrakhan give the civil rights movement a bad name. I'm not going to embrace every doomer just because they are doomers. That is, IMHO, fanaticism.
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Re: Doomer documentary gets rave reviews at Toronto film fest

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 20 Sep 2009, 18:46:58

pstarr wrote:That is why I mostly lurk and troll.


At least you're being honest. ;)

pstarr wrote:It is too late. Do your homework. Read Hirsch. Read the Oildrum. Read between the lines at IEA. We've peaked and we don't have 30 or twenty years for mitigation.


Three words don't describe the range of outcomes still possible.

pstarr wrote:Isn't Business as Usual great. Can't wait to show it to my doomers friends. Wait. I don't have any. There aren't any anywhere around me. You are all I have :cry:


Maybe look up Derrick Jensen. I hear he's behind the Redwood Curtain as well.
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