backstop wrote:ES -
It's good to find that we agree fundamentally not only over the critical need for a Treaty of the Atmospheric Commons,
but also over the highly positive potential of Coppice Methanol.
backstop wrote:With regard to the points you raised, I wrote that "it remains to be seen" just what are the full-term full-spectrum costs of nuclear methanol
because we don't yet have those costs. and my searches of even current EU costings put nuclear power at two to three times the cost of hydro power.
backstop wrote:This ratio usually excludes decomissioning (which has yet to occur) and insurance costs (now paid by the taxpayer) and permanent waste storage (which again has yet to occur).
Given that two out of three of these will occur under elevated energy costs post peak oil, we can reasonably expect these costs to rise from present guesstimates,
and even these are already rising (e.g. the rise from £50 Bn to £70 Bn for decomissioning the current UK fleet).
backstop wrote:I would agree that technical papers have peripherally covered the nuclear methanol option -
what I was referring to was the lack of this option being used in public lobbying - e.g. this is the first coverage of it here on PO.com.
backstop wrote:I have to say that I'd differ with your expectation of cheap abundundant electricity becoming available under the impacts of declining oil and gas supply,
together, God willing, with stringent global efforts to reduce the carbon emissions from coal combustion.
backstop wrote:Finally, I'm very interested by your EROEI calculations regarding Coppice Methanol, but I'm not sure I understand your math. Could you clarify it ?
backstop wrote:There are of course many practical questions around the issue -
for instance, a mega-scale project:
with feedstock being mechanically extracted, trucked 40kms to a huge plant and reduced to woodchips before gasification, with all carbon being reduced to CO2,
will have a very different EROEI to a minimal scale project that :
harvests the feedstock manually and binds it into 250kg faggots, extracts them with draft animals and hauls them 2.5kms to the village refinery,
where they're fed whole to a tube kiln that leaves the excess carbon in the form of charcoal rather than its being wastefully reduced to CO2.
backstop wrote:I should add here that using draft animals may seem utopian to some, but they are actually strictly practical both as a capital cost saving and as a yield maximizing tactic -
last time I visited Palm Oil plantations in W. Costa Rica they'd gone back to oxen haulage from tractors,
since the latter had been running over the trees' roots and thereby suppressing yields.
backstop wrote:From this perspective it seems likely that the affordability of labour will be a significant component in the level of EROEI achievable,
as will having a project design that sets a prime value on maximizing EROEI.
regards,
Backstop
Currently, the primary alcohol being produced for energy purposes is ethanol. A new method for producing longer-chain alcohols as biofuels has been developed by University of California, Los Angeles researchers that shows promise at creating alcohols with an energy content close to that of gasoline. The research paper can be found in the January 3, 2008 edition of the journal Nature.
Graeme wrote:New Biofuel Manufacturing Process Could Revolutionize Alcohol as a FuelCurrently, the primary alcohol being produced for energy purposes is ethanol. A new method for producing longer-chain alcohols as biofuels has been developed by University of California, Los Angeles researchers that shows promise at creating alcohols with an energy content close to that of gasoline. The research paper can be found in the January 3, 2008 edition of the journal Nature.
associatedcontent
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Common ethanol fuel mixtures for fuel sold as gasoline currently range from 5% to 10%. The share of butanol can be 60% greater than the equivalent ethanol share, which gives a range from 8% to 16%.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
The Open Fuel Standard Act (OFS), introduced to Congress in May 2011, is intended to promote a massive adoption of flex-fuel vehicles capable of running on ethanol or methanol. The bill requires that 50 percent of automobiles made in 2014, 80 percent in 2016, and 95 percent in 2017, would be manufactured and warranted to operate on non-petroleum-based fuels, which includes existing technologies such as flex-fuel, natural gas, hydrogen, biodiesel, plug-in electric and fuel cell.[157][158][159]
FromMethanol, an industrial chemical that can also be used as fuel, can be made from a wide variety of source materials. Viable feedstocks include agricultural products such as corn, sugarcane and switch grass, as well as other sources such as natural gas, coal, or municipal waste. Methanol can even be produced using carbon dioxide emissions that would otherwise contribute to greenhouse gas. As a transportation fuel, methanol has several advantages over gasoline.
Convenience
Methanol can quickly compete with gasoline in order to reduce dependence on foreign oil. Feedstocks are abundant and readily available in the U.S., methanol can be produced at scale using technology available today, and relatively small changes to existing infrastructure can deliver it to customers at the pump.
Oil is the only source for gasoline we use today. However, methanol can be produced from an almost endless variety of materials, including natural gas and municipal waste, as well as renewable resources such as biomass.
Methanol can be most quickly produced at a large scale using abundant U.S. natural gas.
Methanol from natural gas can be produced close to dispensing centers in large metropolitan areas, reducing the need to transport fuel.
Methanol can be made from any carbohydrate, including biomass.
Performance
Methanol offers certain performance advantages compared to gasoline.
Methanol has a much higher octane rating than gasoline, allowing blends to raise vehicle performance without other chemical additives.
Studies have shown that methanol can improve fuel economy compared to gasoline
Human health & safety
Most U.S. citizens live in cities where they are regularly exposed to concentrated vehicle emissions that affect air quality and increase incidence of asthma and other respiratory health ailments as well as cancer. Methanol can not only reduce toxic emissions and decrease particulates, but also decrease the use of carcinogenic gasoline additives and chance of vehicle fires.
Studies have shown reductions in vehicle emissions, with recent tests finding a complete reduction in carbon monoxide using a blend of 60% methanol with 40% gasoline.
Using inherently high-octane methanol can eliminate the need for octane boosting, but harmful, aromatic compound additives that replaced lead in gasoline. Commonly known as BTX for benzene, toluene and xylene, these additives promote particulates that lead to human respiratory problems such as bronchitis or asthma. Benzene is itself a carcinogen.
Methanol burns much cooler than gasoline, which could reduce the number of automobile fires.
The environment
Petroleum affects the environment at every level of it lifecycle, from drilling to refining to distribution to combustion. On the other hand, even when produced from natural gas that is extracted using common oil drilling methods such as fracking, methanol avoids the end-to-end environmental impacts of gasoline.
Methanol is naturally biodegradable with a very short half-life. An Exxon-Valdez methanol spill would not have required expensive lawsuits or a “super fund” effort to clean it up.
Methanol from natural gas can be produced using up to 25% CO2.
Studies indicate that methanol produced from natural gas is somewhat less greenhouse gas intensive than gasoline produced from conventional oil, and substantially better than high carbon, non-conventional gasoline.
Oil refining impacts air and water quality, produces toxic solids and sludge, and is the most energy intensive industry in the U.S. On the other hand, methanol produced from natural gas requires only a simple gasification process that avoids the toxic byproducts of oil refining.
Although fracking has been primarily associated with natural gas, it was developed and has common use as an oil extracting technology. Its potential to unlock a vast amount of natural gas to help cure our oil addiction cannot be ignored; however, like fracking for oil, careful procedures are necessary to avoid undue harm to freshwater supplies or the environment.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Plans are underway to market a fuel that is 85% Ethanol and 15% Butanol (E85B), so existing E85 internal combustion engines can run on a 100% renewable fuel that could be made without using any fossil fuels
Methanol economy disadvantages
High energy costs associated with generating hydrogen (when needed to synthesize methanol)
Depending on the feedstock the generation in itself may be not clean
Presently generated from syngas still dependent on fossil fuels (although in theory any energy source can be used).
Energy density (by weight or volume) one half of that of gasoline and 24% less than ethanol[11]
Corrosive to some metals including aluminum, zinc and manganese. Parts of the engine fuel-intake systems are made from aluminum. Similar to ethanol, compatible material for fuel tanks, gasket and engine intake have to be used.
As with similarly corrosive and hydrophilic ethanol, existing pipelines designed for petroleum products cannot handle methanol. Thus methanol requires shipment at higher energy cost in trucks and trains, until a whole new pipeline infrastructure can be built.
Methanol, as an alcohol, increases the permeability of some plastics to fuel vapors (e.g. high-density polyethylene).[12] This property of methanol has the possibility of increasing emissions of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) from fuel, which contributes to increased tropospheric ozone and possibly human exposure.
Low volatility in cold weather: pure methanol-fueled engines can be difficult to start, and they run inefficiently until warmed up. This is why a mixture containing 85% methanol and 15% gasoline called M85 is generally used in ICEs. The gasoline allows the engine to start even at lower temperatures.
Methanol is generally considered toxic.[13] Methanol is in fact toxic and eventually lethal when ingested in larger amounts (30 to 100 mL).[14] But so are most motor fuels, including gasoline (120 to 300 mL) and diesel fuel. Gasoline also contains many compounds known to be carcinogenic (e.g. benzene).
Methanol is not a carcinogen, nor does it contain any carcinogens. However, methanol may be metabolized in the body to formaldehyde, which is both toxic and carcinogenic.[15] Methanol occurs naturally in small quantities in the human body and in edible fruits.
Methanol is a liquid: this creates a greater fire risk compared to hydrogen in open spaces. Methanol leaks do not dissipate. A methanol-based fire burns invisibly unlike gasoline. Compared to gasoline, however, methanol is much safer. It is more difficult to ignite and releases less heat when it burns. Methanol fires can be extinguished with plain water, whereas gasoline floats on water and continues to burn. The EPA has estimated that switching fuels from gasoline to methanol would reduce the incidence of fuel related fires by 90%.[16]
Methanol accidentally released from leaking underground fuel storage tanks may undergo relatively rapid groundwater transport and contaminate well water, although this risk has not been thoroughly studied. The history of the fuel additive methyl t-butyl ether (MTBE) as a groundwater contaminant has highlighted the importance of assessing the potential impacts of fuel and fuel additives on multiple environmental media.[17] An accidental release of methanol in the environment would, however, cause much less damage than a comparable gasoline or crude oil spill. Unlike these fuels, methanol, being totally soluble in water, would be rapidly diluted to a concentration low enough for microorganism to start biodegradation. Methanol is in fact used for denitrification in water treatment plant as a nutrient for bacteria.[18]
Graeme wrote:Tanada, Do you know the current status of the Open Fuel Standard Act of 2011 (H.R. 1687)?
Maybe retrofitting the current fleet or introducing flexi-fuel cars for alcohol fuels might work to some extent once this bill is passed. Hard to predict what proportion would adopt this though given the number of competitors. I also saw in this wiki link that:Plans are underway to market a fuel that is 85% Ethanol and 15% Butanol (E85B), so existing E85 internal combustion engines can run on a 100% renewable fuel that could be made without using any fossil fuels
Thanks for pointing out the advantages of methanol but there also disadvantages:
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Methanex Corp. (MX), the world’s largest methanol supplier, is forecast by analysts to climb beyond last month’s record price as demand rises for the chemical as a fuel source in countries such as China.
Methanol, used in paint, windshield-wiper fluid and plastics, is increasingly being blended into gasoline and other fuels. Investor optimism about Vancouver-based Methanex’s outlook helped drive the shares to an all-time closing price of C$44.09 ($43.69) in Toronto on April 25, a 53 percent increase in six months.
“This used to be a boring industrial chemical company -- people didn’t really care about methanol,” Steven Hansen, a Vancouver-based analyst at Raymond James Ltd. who has a price target of C$50.84, said last week in a telephone interview. “Now there’s this whole new group of demand silos that have emerged that are energy related.”
Ten analysts, including Hansen, have an average target price of C$47.95 a share, according to data compiled by Bloomberg, 13 percent more than the close yesterday. The shares rose 1.9 percent to close at C$43.20 in Toronto today. Analysts have six buy, one sell and three hold ratings on the stock.
Methanol as an energy source “is seen around the world as part of the solution to high gasoline prices,” Methanex Chief Executive Officer John Floren said in an April 25 interview in Vancouver. “It’s economic and it’s clean burning.”
Methanol is most commonly produced on an industrial scale using natural gas. Global demand for methanol for energy use is expanding at more than 10 percent a year, according to Methanex. It accounted for 37 percent of global methanol demand last year, up from 27 percent in 2007, Jim Jordan of Jim Jordan & Associates, a Houston-based chemical industry consultancy, said yesterday in a telephone interview.
The debottlenecking project will increase methanol capacity by 25% to 875,000 tpy. It will also raise ammonia capacity by 15% to 292,000 tpy. OCI said it will adhere to the "highest safety standards in the industry" during its expansion operations, which are expected to conclude in late 2014.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Today, China has picked up the methanol torch with over 2.3 billion gallons methanol blended in gasoline in 2011 for use in passenger cars, taxis and bus fleets. Chinese automakers are introducing new models of methanol FFVs while national fuel standards for methanol fuel blending have been adopted to grow the market in an organised manner.
Its usage of the chemical as a transport fuel is expected to double to 8-9m tonnes/year by 2015 from 2012, with a share of 13-16% to China’s overall methanol consumption, if the government’s plan of mandating a 15% methanol blend on gasoline – M15 – pushes through this year, they said.
The M15 plan is incorporated in China’s 12th five-year plan as part of its strategy to minimise dependence on oil imports, while promoting use of a more environmentally friendly fuel, but no official schedule was set for its implementation.
In the municipality of Shanghai, as well as in Shanxi province, trial projects are underway in which some buses are being run on 100% methanol, industry sources said, citing that the alternative fuel is much cheaper than gasoline.
Methanol is priced at around CNY (yuan) 2,800/tonne ($451/tonne) ex-tank, while a 90-RON gasoline costs CNY 7310/kl, which is roughly equivalent to CNY 5,409/tonne.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
As a fuel for fuel cells, methanol is showing good form lately. Last month, Ballard Power Systems announced that it had shipped 500 methanol-fuelled ElectraGen-ME telecom backup power systems since the company acquired the product line from IdaTech in August 2012.
In fact, the methanol-fuelled product appears to be more popular than the hydrogen version: in the five months to the end of 2012, Ballard sold 160 hydrogen-fuelled ElectraGen versus 240 methanol-fuelled systems.
DMFC specialist SFC Energy has launched new versions of its EFOY Pro portable generators for demanding industrial applications; lifetime has increased by 50% to 4,500 hours, while operating costs have been cut by as much as 40%.
Oorja Protonics has also been busy, signing up UniPro Foodservice Inc. as a potential customer for Oorja's DMFC range-extender technology for materials handling vehicles (MHV).
It is working with HySA Catalysis in South Africa, which has the marketing and distribution rights to Oorja's products in the African market; the target applications are telecommunications backup power, MHV, and auxiliary power units for refrigerated trucks.
But if there is one fuel cell application that surely must be considered beyond the reach of methanol, it is its use as an automotive fuel. It was tried in the 1990s but set aside in favour of hydrogen.
So that was that for methanol and fuel cell vehicles - or was it? Fuel Cell Today has spoken to one fuel cell company that thinks not: Denmark's Serenergy.
Serenergy's Commercial Manager Mads Friis Jensen says the company is not looking to compete in the range where DMFC technology is well-established and effective, but he believes that at power outputs above about 300 W PEMFC-based products make better sense as they allow for more compactness and efficiency than DMFC equivalents.
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