[Waterthrush]

If it isn't laden with questionable chemicals and if it doesn't extract too much energy, I would. I eat and enjoy meat, but think all the time about giving it up, because I'm sick of the cruelty to mass produced farm animals.

[CamelJockey]

bump

[nocar]

Perhaps someone is better informed than I am, but my understanding is that cows as well as all other ruminants produce methane in their rumen, their first stomach out of four. Actually it is microbes that make the methane and in doing so helps the cow digest cellulose in the grass. A very efficient system.
So yes, cows emit important amounts of methane. But by burping rather than farting.

nocar

[vaseline2008]

Here's a list of different animal manure and their "N-P-K" content:

Manure Fertilizer

[nocar]

Vaseline, I do not get the connection to manure, especially N-P-K (nitrogen, phosphoros, potassium). None of these elements are part of methane, CH[sub]4[/sub].

nocar

[kpeavey]

What happens when you try to light a cow fart?

link

[Narz]

I've heard varying estimates.

One thing's for sure. People who whine about SUV's & dine on steak (or drink milk) are hypocrites.

[Narz]

One thing's for sure. People who whine about SUV's & dine on steak (or drink milk) are hypocrites.

Guess that makes me and my family hypocrites! We eat beef regularly and drink both cow and goat milk, and other dairy stuff, every day. Thanks for the condemnation!

I should have stipulated beef & milk from factory farmed cows. If you support local farms that don't feed cattle grains then more power to you.

[Narz]

Thanks, that is the case, to a large extent.

[Bigfoot3814]

One thing's for sure. People who whine about SUV's & dine on steak (or drink milk) are hypocrites.

Oh well that's just freaking great.

[vaseline2008]

Vaseline, I do not get the connection to manure, especially N-P-K (nitrogen, phosphoros, potassium). None of these elements are part of methane, CH4.

Sorry, I think I was "multi-posting" at the time and posted in the wrong forum, moderator, you can delete the post. As for the cows, how about us humans? You know, lighting your own fart with a lighter?

[wisconsin_cur]

Link

MONTGOMERY, Ala. – For farmers, this stinks: Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing them money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law.
Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.
"This is one of the most ridiculous things the federal government has tried to do," said Alabama Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.
It would require farms or ranches with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs to pay an annual fee of about $175 for each dairy cow, $87.50 per head of beef cattle and $20 for each hog.
The executive vice president of the Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation, Ken Hamilton, estimated the fee would cost owners of a modest-sized cattle ranch $30,000 to $40,000 a year. He said he has talked to a number of livestock owners about the proposals, and "all have said if the fees were carried out, it would bankrupt them."
Sparks said Wednesday he's worried the fee could be extended to chickens and other farm animals and cause more meat to be imported.

[CarlosFerreira]

Funny, this. I'm studying environmental economics, and we have a lot of modules relating to both env and ag policies, and I just don't see it happening. The EU, but the US as well, have been financing ag like crazy since the 50's, up to the point where we were all standing on piles of grain and swimming in lakes of milk. They all couldn't agree on the best way to reduce subsidies. The EU pays farmers handsome sums of money for env output (anything from hedges, not cutting the grass before certain date to allow animals to breed and have their young safely out), and now this?

Come on, I don't buy it. Not from a country that couldn't agree in a common CO2 emissions abatement policy and that hasn't rectified Kyoto. That, they know quite well, would only increase the costs for local producers and allow for further imports form other producing nations. Nothing good would come of it.

[sirrom]

One way to stop imports would be to tax them. That way U.S meat would still be cheaper.

[CarlosFerreira]

One way to stop imports would be to tax them. That way U.S meat would still be cheaper.

Maybe. But consumers would be worse off as a result - consumers are also worse off as a result of import taxes. What you want is competition to drive down prices.

Besides, I don't know if the US could produce enough to sustain present demand. In that case you would get even larger price increases and a reduction in consumption.

It's not that easy.

[sirrom]

In that case you would get even larger price increases and a reduction in consumption.

That is what the general idea is. Meat and dairy is the food of the rich.

[CarlosFerreira]

In that case you would get even larger price increases and a reduction in consumption.

That is what the general idea is. Meat and dairy is the food of the rich.

I'm aware of the general loss of efficiency in transforming grain into protein. But to say something like that is out of my perspective, sorry.

[wisconsin_cur]

In that case you would get even larger price increases and a reduction in consumption.

That is what the general idea is. Meat and dairy is the food of the rich.

Which in America is going to sound as elitist as saying healthcare is the privlidge of the rich... and go over just as well.

[cube]

It will NOT work and here's why.

What's to stop retailers from saving money by buying their beef from countries that do not have this tax?
Grocery stores might as well buy their beef from Argentina to save a buck.
The American farmer would be totally screwed over.

I'm not saying the idea of an "environmental tax" is bad.
However if there is a loophole big enough to drive a hummer through it well then it means the proposal is poorly crafted.
One way to solve this issue is to put the tax on the end user.
On the retail end....the grocery store.
Or maybe an import tax on beef.
That way ALL producers would be effected equally.

[CarlosFerreira]

It will NOT work and here's why.
What's to stop retailers from saving money by buying their beef from countries that do not have this tax?
Grocery stores might as well buy their beef from Argentina to save a buck. The American farmer would be totally screwed over.
I'm not saying the idea of an "environmental tax" is bad. However if there is a loophole big enough to drive a hummer through it well then it means the proposal is poorly crafted.
One way to solve this issue is to put the tax on the end user.
On the retail end....the grocery store.
Or maybe an import tax on beef.
That way ALL producers would be effected equally.

Bingo, +1.

Put a tax in place and you'd have to put up import barriers to stop that. And the means both internal and external produced get screwed all over, but so does the consumer.

Everyone's worse off for little gain.

Let's work our way around the CO2 emissions first, shall we? Let's not get ahead of ourselves.