[smallpoxgirl]

It's sort of the same logic it seems as the people who say they will comit suicide at the first wiff of peak oil. "The sun will explode in 500 million years so lets see if we can't destroy all life on the planet during our life times making stupid crap like space ships." The most grave and imminent threat to life on this planet is civilized humans. Period.

[nero]

It seems to me the only real hope for life on earth living on after the earth has snuffed out is if we develop a new machine life form and send it out into space. I think that is much more realistic than believing our flesh and blood descendents will colonize space.

Hopefully if we ever do send out our creations into space we will instill into them the humility to understand that there is something greater than themselves.

[Heineken]

The notion of colonizing the stars is part of the same mindset that's gotten us---and our fellow creatures---into so much trouble on Earth.

At this point in our general death-struggle we'd have trouble "getting it up" just to go back to the goddamned Moon.

[Graeme]

I suspect that most people thought that this article was about the end of the world in our lifetime. That's why more than 500 people had a look at this thread. This is very telling because it indicates that self preservation is innate and most (some?) of us will survive peak oil and who knows the demise of the Earth.

[Clouseau2]

Instead of colonizing space, why don't we repair the Sun instead? We could mine all the extra material and build new planets, and dump hydrogen from nearby gas clouds to fuel the Sun.

That isn't possible today, but neither is moving to another solar system.

[smallpoxgirl]

Look guys. We're not going to escape planet earth. We're not going to colonize the universe with human machines or any stupid crap like that. The simple truth is that we're nothing all that special and the universe really doesn't need us that badly. Every one of us is born, grows old, and dies. Same thing with species, planets, etc. Why? No idea. I didn't design the system, but that's how it is. Maybe its to keep us humble. The truth is that we are pretty puny stupid little critters and there are things in the universe that can crush us like a bug. Is the sun someday going to burn out? Sure. Is the Yellowstone caldera going to explode and trigger an ice age? Someday. Why in the blazes would I want to worry about some uncontrolable calamity that is millions of years away. Figuring out my own trite, finite human life is complicated enough for my puny little human brain. Best case scenario, I got maybe 40-50 more years on this planet. If I can make it through that time without my species trashing the place any worse, that's good enough for me.

[EndDays]

Truer than Jesus

I respectfully disagree.

He's real, very real.

ED

[TWilliam]

Look guys. We're not going to escape planet earth. We're not going to colonize the universe with human machines or any stupid crap like that. The simple truth is that we're nothing all that special and the universe really doesn't need us that badly. Every one of us is born, grows old, and dies. Same thing with species, planets, etc. Why? No idea. I didn't design the system, but that's how it is. Maybe its to keep us humble. The truth is that we are pretty puny stupid little critters and there are things in the universe that can crush us like a bug. Is the sun someday going to burn out? Sure. Is the Yellowstone caldera going to explode and trigger an ice age? Someday. Why in the blazes would I want to worry about some uncontrolable calamity that is millions of years away. Figuring out my own trite, finite human life is complicated enough for my puny little human brain. Best case scenario, I got maybe 40-50 more years on this planet. If I can make it through that time without my species trashing the place any worse, that's good enough for me.

Ayeeee F#ckin' MAYunh!!!

Why in the blazes would I want to worry about some uncontrolable calamity that is millions of years away.

Hmmm...



Distraction?

[grabby]

I think the real true eak oil will come before any of the above events. Red sun is just a feel good red herring, like"Oh well we got a long time"
Well we dont. almost all of us here will have our lives ended directly from peak oil effects sooon.
forget red suns.

[justgas]

Wu Wei involves a lot of quiet thinking, reflection, inward mediation. It lets go by slipping out of the grip of thinking that things "must", "are", "or else". It asks questions but is comfortable without knowing an answer. It avoids wrong actions by not doing.

And if it was difficult, I would guess it really wasn't wu wei. Maybe on the path toward understanding it, but not part of its mature embodiment. It is in itself just a reflection of power in simplicity.

Wu Wei is like going down hill on a bicycle. No effort but it still can be terrifying. You see the hill. You have the bicycle. But first you must lose your fear of death before you can ride that hill. Harder than losing your personal fear of death is learning to see those you love as no more important than dusty piles of bones.

Blistered, I sympathize with your feelings about receiving bad information. I passed some good info this week, then denied it out of fear.

We have always had corrupt politians, organized crime; those who will use lies and threats and violence to gain an advantage. As the pie begins to shrink as we go post peak, there will be more and more of this type. If we let our fear isolate us and keep us from trusting anyone, the more ruthless will weed us out. Maybe it is the immigrant or the black this time. Next time it could be us. If we don't stand up now, who will stand up for us, when our time comes.

Sometimes standing by and not doing anything is wrong action. Are we more nearly human, are we more nearly alligned with the way, when we are protecting our genes or when we are protecting an ideal? Do either of these paths lead to life or are they both just different disguises of death?

If we are willing to send our young men and women around the world to fight for democracy, why are we so reluctant to risk anything to stand up for the rule of law here?

[o2ny]

The simple truth is that we're nothing all that special and the universe really doesn't need us that badly.

Ah, but how are we much different from the universe that we feel separate from? The universe is made of only matter and energy... which combines to form minerals & the elements, carbon, water, gases and dust. And so are we. We are made up only of particles and molecules that can be found here- so humans are seamlessly woven into the fabric of this universe. It's just one whole entity. As ever evolving conscious beings we are simply the eyes and ears for the universe, helping it see itself, awaken to itself, experience itself... really - what other reason is there for us to exist at all?

[smallpoxgirl]

Ah, but how are we much different from the universe that we feel separate from?

No arguement there. Just remember that the same is true of a cockroach. The universe is not going to show you any special favors just because you understand how to use a fork and knife.

To quote Tyler Durden: "You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic material as everything else. The all-singing, all-dancing crap of the universe."

In someways it seems really cruel, this whole business of being born just to die. What are ya gonna do though? Get pissed at God? Truth is we just created him because it was beyond our ability to understand what the F__K is going on in the universe. If we can't understand it, we certainly can't control it. All we can do is sit back and enjoy the ride. I like the bicycle analogy.

Can you guys recommend any more resources on Taoism? I've read the Tao of Pooh and the Tao Te Ching.

[Lighthouse]

I'm working on becoming a conscious spirit without a body. I read somewhere not stepping in the light will achieve this.

So I will be around when our sun will grow, implode, explode etc.

But before that I will haunt you all ...

[threadbear]

Wu Wei involves a lot of quiet thinking, reflection, inward mediation. It lets go by slipping out of the grip of thinking that things "must", "are", "or else". It asks questions but is comfortable without knowing an answer. It avoids wrong actions by not doing.

And if it was difficult, I would guess it really wasn't wu wei. Maybe on the path toward understanding it, but not part of its mature embodiment. It is in itself just a reflection of power in simplicity.

Wu Wei is like going down hill on a bicycle. No effort but it still can be terrifying. You see the hill. You have the bicycle. But first you must lose your fear of death before you can ride that hill. Harder than losing your personal fear of death is learning to see those you love as no more important than dusty piles of bones.

?

I think zen master A.E Newman said it best,

"What me Wu Wei?"

[Zardoz]

Hawking's insistence that we must survive as a species is insufferable arrogance at it's very worst. How can someone so otherwise intelligent think such a thing?

Smallpoxgirl is so right when she says we're nothing special. Our passing will not be noticed.

Hell, if we haven't completely driven ourselves to extinction in the next couple of hundred years it'll be a miracle. And we're supposed to be worried about millions of years?

[Raxozanne]

Hawking's insistence that we must survive as a species is insufferable arrogance at it's very worst. How can someone so otherwise intelligent think such a thing?

It correlates well the level of arrogance, over-optimism and egotism displayed by our species since records began. Hawkings may be smart but he is still homo sapiens.

[Doly]

Hawking's insistence that we must survive as a species is insufferable arrogance at it's very worst.

Insufferable arrogance must be common to all lifeforms, then.

[Zardoz]

Hawking's insistence that we must survive as a species is insufferable arrogance at it's very worst.

Insufferable arrogance must be common to all lifeforms, then.

Yeah, we living things tend to try to keep going, don't we? Good point.

It's just that his notion that we can somehow find another inhabitable planet, and should actually devote the resources to trying to do it, is absurd.

And, given our record of total irresponsibilty, do we deserve to survive? Do we deserve a second chance considering what we've done to our home planet?

[smallpoxgirl]

And, given our record of total irresponsibilty, do we deserve to survive? Do we deserve a second chance considering what we've done to our home planet?

Yeah. I sort of figure that tuberculosis bacteria must have the same discussion about the time that their human host makes it to the ICU. "Uhh Ohh. This one could die! We better start looking for another human to spread to."

Seriously though. Whatever it was that quarantined us on this planet seems pretty determined that we not get off. Where is the next inhabitable planet? Do we even know? We never got any further exploring space than our own moon. How many orders of magnitude greater is the distance to the next inhabitable planet?

[eric_b]

OK, so am I really supposed to give two skips about what will happen in half a billion years?

No. The human species won't even be around by then. Why people think this is even an issue is beyond me. "We must escape to the stars before the Sun goes nova!"

Idiotic.

Exactly. Nothing lasts forever, that's what makes our present
condition so... unique. There's nothing to hold on to, nothing you
can take with you at death. Just enjoy each moment as best you
can.