davep wrote:I'm not sure this site is peddling solar ovens etc. LATOC maybe, but go and ask them that question.
davep wrote:The vast majority of posters who have come and gone eventually get to some equilibrium in their own mind on the subject, and leave. This leaves the die-hard monomaniacs here, such as the truthers, the zombie horders and the cornu-trolls. It puts people off coming back.
shortonsense wrote:peak oil credibility goes right out the window.
shortonsense wrote:People who are better aware of a credible and serious issue are more likely to be receptive to proposed solutions and such.
mos6507 wrote:shortonsense wrote:peak oil credibility goes right out the window.
Huh? You're here to mirror JD's position in peak oil debunked, which is that peak oil is real, but nothing to worry about.
mos6507 wrote: So if peak oil has no credibility, why does that matter? Adaptations will happen just-in-time. The market, (moderate) lifestyle change, and innovation will come to the rescue. Serious hardship (let alone die-off) will be averted. So why do you care???
mos6507 wrote:shortonsense wrote:People who are better aware of a credible and serious issue are more likely to be receptive to proposed solutions and such.
That's just it. In your world it's NOT a serious issue, because it is self-correcting.
shortonsense wrote:Certainly for the more prepared it hasn't been any big deal, Airline Pilot and I being just 2 examples.
shortonsense wrote:kept an eye open for any Ehrlich type symptoms, and I began to prep.
shortonsense wrote:round the world cruises or watching my pennys to make sure I've got some spare pocket change to help the kids out of a jam.
And so we must countenance, prepare for, and indeed enforce “The End of Growth.” After all, fish stocks are going, topsoil is going, water is going, rock phosphates are going. And “we’re about to lose the tiger.”
Loki wrote:I don't think peak oil cares what kind of crackpots believe or don't believe in it. Like global warming, it does not require your belief. It ain't Jehovah or Zeus, it's just an uncomfortable scientific fact.
yeahbut wrote:Mos is quite correct. Your thread is pointless and a waste of time.
dsula wrote:yeahbut wrote:Mos is quite correct. Your thread is pointless and a waste of time.
How can you say it's pointless. It's a lot less pointless than the majority of the posts on this forum. For my taste short is a bit too optimistic and too techy-fixy but his anti-doomer arguments usually make sense.
davep wrote:dsula wrote:yeahbut wrote:Mos is quite correct. Your thread is pointless and a waste of time.
How can you say it's pointless. It's a lot less pointless than the majority of the posts on this forum. For my taste short is a bit too optimistic and too techy-fixy but his anti-doomer arguments usually make sense.
He's forever going on about peak being 2005 and that we all said zombie hordes are round the corner, which we didn't. It gets very dull. He loves his strawmen.
mos6507 wrote:shortonsense wrote:round the world cruises or watching my pennys to make sure I've got some spare pocket change to help the kids out of a jam.
davep wrote:He's forever going on about peak being 2005 and that we all said zombie hordes are round the corner, which we didn't. It gets very dull. He loves his strawmen.
shortonsense wrote: I submit that peak oil "gets no respect" because it associated with the likes of nutjobs and crackpots who use it to their own ends.
Ludi wrote:mos6507 wrote:shortonsense wrote:round the world cruises or watching my pennys to make sure I've got some spare pocket change to help the kids out of a jam.
I'm not convinced an educator who can't spell "pennies" is very credible.
shortonsense wrote:It is reasonable to ask how many CURRENT prognostications are nonsense as well. If it isn't obvious to you, it certainly is to me, some people are quite wrapped up in their prognostications, and have no sense at all about how poorly such things has worked out in the past.
shortonsense wrote:...individuals on the forums, pushing the nonstop 9/11 trivia, the faked moon landings...
Colin Campbell wrote:Taken from the section entitled, The Grand Plan, p.188
The Double Simulation
So, we may conclude that it was decided to put in hand a bold plan of action. It took courage to do so, they were evidently up to the occasion, deciding to implement it on September 11, 2001. The details of the operation remain obscure, but the many curious features of the event can hardly be denied or easily explained. They include:
The normal defenses being shut down for that day for a simulated hijacking.
The rapid identification as hijackers of a group of Egyptians and Saudis, who had been given minimal flying training at a school in Florida, being supervised by intelligence minders in their apartment building.
Four airliners were reported as being hijacked, having exceptionally low passenger lists.
Two of the airliners were filmed striking prominent buildings in New York, which exploded in what struck some analysts as a controlled demolitions, the steel from the sites being later exported to China as scrap, preventing forensic analysis. The death toll was held to a minimum by timing the incident to occur before most people arrived at work, some being alerted to the last minute by the Odigo messaging service not to go to their offices that day. Some senior executives also found themselves attending a charity event at an airbase.
The Pentagon was depicted as another target. One explosion occurred leaving a small hole in ground level without trace of a crashed airliner.
The passport of one of the alleged hijackers was found in the New York rubble, despite the strength of the explosion.
An Israeli film crew was in position on the roof of an adjoining building to film the event.
The maneuvers undertaken by the air craft would test the skills of an experienced pilot, being fired beyond those having no more than brief training in light aircraft, suggesting that the aircraft may have been flown by remote control.
Within seconds of the event, a sinister figure in an Afghan cave had been identified as the ringleader of a global organization, now named Al Qaeda, threatening the United States. He looks the part in his beard and outlandish robes, making excellent TV imagery. He was easily controlled having been previously on the CIA payroll. Various videos and messages from him declaring a holy Muslim war were broadcast. Knowing full well where he was, may have made it easy to plan an unsuccessful search.
Finally, the vice president took that dates be out of sight, evidently having taken command from some control bunker, while the president found himself reading to children at a school in Florida, even sing no surprise when an aide burst in to inform him of the incident.
The operation was pulled off immaculately despite a few difficulties that were experienced when the intelligence services both at home and abroad got wind of what was afoot, leading to many subsequent claims that the government had failed to take proper note of the reported threats.For good measure, a brief anthrax scare followed to bring home to every individual fear that they were personally threatened. A universal sense of fear was a critical part of the strategy.
Before long, the B-52s had been armed and sent into action. Images of the new sinister enemy in the form of Afghan tribesmen with their roads, beards and headdresses, astride donkeys with a musket across their backs, were soon broadcast around the world. Within a few weeks, it was all over. The Taliban government fell to be replaced by a puppet regime, led by Hamid Karzai. He was a Western-oriented men, who had previously been a consultant to Union Oil of California. The action now was depicted as having a moral objective. Afghan women appeared before the cameras to explain how they have been oppressed by the previous regime, which had denied them education or the opportunity to find careers as dentists, teachers or shop assistants.
The setback to the grand strategy came when the Kashagan and prospects off Kazakhstan, once billed as rivaling Saudi Arabia, was finally drilled with disappointing results. It soon became apparent that the Caspian would not in fact lessen dependence on Middle East oil to any significant degree. It was a setback for the small one, for stage II of the grand plan involving an attack on the Middle East itself had been the primary mission all along. A direct initial attack in the Middle East, with its obvious oil links, would have been widely opposed both at home and abroad, and so it was expedient to lead into it through a skirmish in remote and irrelevant Afghanistan. That campaign served its purpose by putting the country on a war footing, to which the people were not condition. Even so, some further pretexts were needed. Iraq was accordingly accused of having threatening weapons despite evidence to the contrary from the UN inspectors. It was not even necessary to pretend that the country was in any way linked to the events of September 11 as Saddam was already established a villain in the popular mind after the first Gulf War, itself being the result of an earlier strategy related to oil price as discussed in Chapter 4.
The grand plan, if that is what it was, might have made eminent good sense in an abstract way from the distance of Washington where academic strategists spent their days moving chess pieces around the global scene. The man in command, who appeared to have the vision or knowledge of history and geopolitics that barely reached West Texas, may have readily accepted, having been further encouraged by the notion that he was in some way divinely inspired. He may also have been influenced by other lattes from the arms industry wanting new business, from the financiers and investment people wanting to deflect attention from the basic weakness in the stock market and the dollar, and of course by sundry Israeli lobbyists. With a shrug of the shoulder, he may have said "if that's what it takes, folks, let's do it, but try to keep the casualties down". The successful efforts to limit casualties tend to confirm that the action was not the work of those for whom the only good American was a dead one.
pstarr wrote:Obviously you need new friends. The one you have are apparently clueless, otherwise they would not so gleefully dismiss calls for conservation, mitigation, personal and social responsibility and especially preparation. Do you really believe this is a joke? Have you read the Hirsch Report? Do you have a better platform for disucssion? What is wrong with free-ranging scenerio discussion and planning.AAA wrote:shortonsense wrote: I submit that peak oil "gets no respect" because it associated with the likes of nutjobs and crackpots who use it to their own ends.
I would agree 110% with this statement.
I work in the oil industry and talk about peak oil on a weekly basis with people. Many peope associate peak oil with conspiracy theoriest wearing faraday cage tinfoil hats, hiding from the government in a remote area of Nevada with a stash of guns, gold, and food anticipating the end of the world.
I have an idea. If this place is so inadequate, why don't you give your friends at the White House a ring, and institute a reasonable Peak Oil planning group? I am sure Obama (or his successor Sara Palin) is just hanging on every phone call waiting for it to be YOU.Then why are you here? I hope you are not so vain to suggest your mere presence "contributes credibility." Neither your degree, title, and or professional experience is a guarantee of original thought or creative analysis. And that is what this issue demands.AAA wrote:When I do talk about peak oil and give different references I NEVER mention peakoil.com because this site would convince anyone that peak oil is a bunch of unemployed 40 year old guys living in their mother's basement predicting the end of the world.
I have seen oil professionals come and go who have contributed little or nothing. Many are stuck in a ancient paradigm, where reserves grow forever, production is only constrained by demand or cartel, and there will always be another swing state. Wrong my smug friend.Who cares about starting salaries? I sure don't This is a peak oil web site. Not an oil field bulletin board. Do you really think your pretty little salary, 401k, or special parking space is going to protect your from social collapse? Only an over-specialized cog like yourself, with no world experience, historical perspective, or biologic understanding would be so vain to believe they are exempt from the simple universal truths--without adequate energy complex organisms (individuals, lifeforms, social structures, societies) die or change. I have been here 5 years, aware of peak since 1998 and seen zero nada real change. Just prevarication and BAU.AAA wrote:90% of the conversations on this site are worthless junk about nothing. There is some really good content but you have to wade through a lot of trash to get their. Even topics that are great usually get sidetracked by individuals who have agendas.
For Example:
I created a topic on starting salaries. I got the idea from theoildrum.com
Loki hijacked it by ranting about drilling, mining, and the environment
Ludi hijacked it by making her point about about the definitions of rich and what salary means.
Why can't we just keep stuff on topic and delete the stupid stuff like multiple polls to prove ones point.
And when idiots like Short assert so confidently that peak occurred and it means nothing, ask yourself or your smart financial friends whether our economy can really stand another 7%/GDP energy cost regime? But that is exactly where we are going.
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