[Sixstrings]

Your lucky you are not living in some poor country right now racked by violence, the drug plague, crime, out of control corruption, bad environment, lack of jobs but you get the picture.

Gee, are you not describing the US? Crime is WAY up, first time since the 90s and 25 years of epic low crime rates (fergusson effect).

DRUGS are *way* up -- meth, heroine, weed getting legalized in state after state (which I don't mind, but people don't wanna admit the bad parts that come with that).. then pain pills.. oxy.. all of those.. drugs are a huge problem.

Corruption -- not quit the same / as bad as the 3rd world but check, we've got corruption.

Lack of jobs -- despite the latest numbers, check, there's a lack of jobs.

You still do not understand that potent corporations, governments, banks, political parties do not have your best interests in mind.

Then explain to me why I should trust Democrats to do carbon taxes and a banker cap and trade scheme, "to save the planet," if the DNC in fact does not have my best interests in mind?

BACK ON TOPIC -- it's just about green tech, green energy, and Republicans should get on board with a climate message of their own.

I don't mind if big oil gets bullied a bit with these probes and investigations, but if it actually came to court cases against them -- blaming them for "the planet" -- or a class action, then I would have genuine legal concerns about that, that it's just not right and is a bad precedent and slippery slope "ferguson effect" thing.

[Sixstrings]

No doubt EXXON is a climate criminal. But its not like anyone else has stopped emitting carbon----start with Obama and his jet set golfing vacations. I hate to think how many cross country trips Obama has made in air force one to play golf in Palm Springs or to go on yet another vacation. And somehow O always forgets the dog and so the dog is brought along later ---- of course in another jet assigned to make the trip just for the dog and the intern who's been assigned to take the dog on its walks.

Obama's personal carbon footprint must the be size of Uranus.

SHEESH!

Lol good points, plant.

I always laugh about old Jimmy Carter (before my time) turning the heater down and wearing a sweater -- but on second thought, nobody could call him a hypocrite.

Now Clinton flies around on jet fuel, suing oil companies.

And then New York State -- liberal as all get out -- jumps on the bandwagon *just as soon* as it became a national candidate accepted thing.

Anyhow we'll see where it all goes, and if it ever gets to a judge or jury. And then if judges are objective about it and use logic and look to the law. It would be a pretty massive thing to hold a particular company liable for "the planet."

Especially when you look at the facts of it, most of all that Exxon published all their research and was working with the government and the UN and universities, for all these years. They published like 50 or 150 peer reviewed papers, so where is this big case against them that they hid the truth of climate change?

It's nuts. It's picking on a company, just to make political points, or something, I don't know what it is but it's odd.

[GHung]

Six says; "But justice is supposed to be blind and the law is the law, you don't just pick on the rich guy just because he has the money while ignoring everyone else that's doing the same thing."

Right, Six, all-the-while you're advocating that the legal system just look the other way? Forget the whole thing? That this is politically motivated from the climate folks? If it's BS, why would you worry about "everyone else that's doing the same thing"?

You need to admit you expect Exxon to be assigned special status, or admit that you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Plantagenet]

where is this big case against them that they hid the truth of climate change?.

Its supposed to be just like the tobacco RICO case.

Big tobacco hid the fact that cigarettes cause cancer so they're to blame for lung cancers among cigarette smokers.

Big oil hid the fact that oil causes climate change so they're to blame for climate change among oil users.

Get it now?

[C8]

It's not right to prosecute groups that are against your group's policy ideas. Nor to prosecute Exxon -- from 40 years ago -- because you think Exxon made it difficult to enact your policy ideas.

That's not against the law.

ALEC isn't against the law, just because they have Republican ideas.

I don't like ALEC and some of these Republican political groups either, that are all pro industry and thick in with Republicans, but the way to go about that isn't by prosecuting them.

But that's sort of what Democrats want to do- prosecute groups for their views. That is the whole point of the thing, to suppress speech and debate. This is the whole point of the PC culture, to "normalize" censorship, create a pretext for suppression. Those who don't use words such as "undocumented immigrant" or referring to Bruce Jenner as a girl will be harassed until they change their words and their thoughts. If you question with global warming you will be sued.

For 35 years I voted Democrat in every election- it was the party of professors, of debate, of the celebration of open ideas. Now it has become so totalitarian I cannot recognize it anymore. You cannot value freedom of speech if you are a Democrat- the party has walked away from that which it fought so wonderfully for years ago. Its very sad to see so many young liberals worried about micro-aggression and setting up safe zones where they are not exposed to "dangerous ideas".

This is the sign of a party that no longer has strong enough ideas to stand up in a debate. It is a sign of intellectual weakness to try to silence your debaters. It shows the Democrats have a low opinion of people to discover the truth for themselves.

A boy disguised as a girl is a girl

an endless flood of poor people into a nation will not drain the welfare state into insolvency

talking about the crime rate of various minority groups is racism and should be censored from the internet and campuses

2 + 2 = 5

this is what the party has come to- its truly 1984

[Lore]

Who says it's a debate? Not the scientists.

[Cid_Yama]

What a bunch of airheads. I gave you the indictment on two separate threads. There is a federal law called the RICO Act that they used to prosecute the Tobacco companies, and the Oil industry, especially Exxon passes the smell test.

They are being indicted for Racketeering.

I guess, in order to continue to shill, you have to pretend the facts and criminal acts don't really exist, didn't really happen.

You know, I'm really happy that in this instance, you all don't get to avoid the consequences. I will take great solace in knowing that in the end, reality will deliver the 'I told you so'.

I would love to witness it, but just knowing there is no way for you to escape it is good enough.

[Cog]

Because your predictions of imminent doom have been so accurate in the past. LOL

[Sixstrings]

Rackateering defintion:

Racketeering is when organized groups run illegal businesses, known as “rackets,” or when an organized crime ring uses legitimate organizations to embezzle funds. Such activities can have devastating consequences for both public and private institutions.

I THINK THE BANKING INDUSTRY HAS BEEN A "RACKET..."

But I don't really think big oil can be called a "racket."

If we're gonna go after "rackets" why can't we start with banking? Because they give so much money to Democrats?

This just seems unfair to me, banking is in the Democrat blue states and then oil is in the Republican red states, so of course it's big oil that Democrats want to bring "rackateering" charges on.

[dohboi]

"Because your predictions of imminent doom have been so accurate in the past"

Typical Cog non-sequitur.

Because he can't actually respond the a posters position, he diverts attention to some other position that he says a poster once had. Totally irrelevant dodge.

Nice try, though.

[dohboi]

What a brave defender of the powerful and malicious our proud 6S is!

I'm sure if a clothing manufacturer produced baby clothes that spontaneously combusted even though they were presented as perfectly safe, our brave 6S would proudly stand up and fight on behalf of the poor, put-upon manufacturer.

We should all be proud that we have such a paragon, such a shining white knight in our very midst!

[Sixstrings]

(warning, big thread derail, but C8 brought up a lot of culture topics)

@C8
I agree with your post, most of all the thing is just that the far left really does have a totalitarian bent to it.

And their leaders don't really even do anything to help the working man -- notice how their energy has been channeled into just "suing Big Oil" yet they still have not raised the minimum wage.

They never did anything about banking, a genuine "racket" that warrants racketeering charges, yet banking is in New York and the solid Democrat blue states and banking gives so much to Democrats, so they won't touch them but they go after oil in Dakota and Texas and Ohio instead.

I just think it's hypocritical of them.

A boy disguised as a girl is a girl

On the culture stuff, I wouldn't blame Democrats for that, it's not their fault or if it is their fault it's too late..

That topic's just a whole other bucket of fish, not sure what can be done about it. On the one hand, it's some pretty crazy stuff.. maybe the breakdown of traditional conservative culture is to blame for it, that kids don't know what gender they are now and basic culture has broken down about it and everything is confused..

Maybe it's the extreme end of feminism, the ultimate breakdown of gender itself..

Maybe it's caused by whatever has caused all the kids to have autism and peanut allergies. When people never used to have all this autism and crazy allergies; when I was kid, NOBODY had all these crazy food allergies, now it's so common, people have a major allergic attack if they eat a peanut. So what the heck has caused that? That never existed before, the autism never existed before, and transgender never existed before (to this extent).

BUT having said that.. nothing you can do about it..

And you also have to consider the fact that these transgender people suffer a lot, and if it's a CHILD then that's just too much on them. I don't know if it's genetic or culture breakdown / change or what it is that has happened, but you can't blame the kids for it.

There have been a lot of cases of transgender youth suicide. So really.. you can't just take a hard line on this..

an endless flood of poor people into a nation will not drain the welfare state into insolvency

Yeah you got a point, there. Though I would say immigrants aren't really a bad thing, it's the story of America really, BUT -- the problem is we've been shipping jobs out while shipping more immigrants in than at any point since the immigration spikes of the 1800s. Objectively, on the facts, we're at higher level of immigration now than at any time in our nation's history and that's saying a lot because we're a melting pot immigrant country.

So it really has been too much, just objectively, and moreover there's been no focus on building a real brick and mortar economy in this country to actually employ people.

talking about the crime rate of various minority groups is racism and should be censored from the internet and campuses

2 + 2 = 5

Yep you have a point, that and "the fergusson effect" -- crime is a big deal for domestic policy, it's one of the most important things there is. Well crime was at historically low rates and decline ever since the 1990s. Now it's skyrocketing again, for the first time. Because of the "fergusson effect" -- it's like atlas shrugged; America's police have "shrugged" and are afraid to do their jobs lest they wind up in prison themselves or sued or just fired, the liability ain't worth it to them anymore.

Yet OTOH.. police have blame too, a lot of their excess has been nuts. There was a white teenager out in the midwest somewhere, shot by a white cop. It was recorded on the police officer's bodycam and played on CNN. That thing was horrible, the kid was just mouthy but unarmed and no threat -- cop shot him dead. Horrible.

So.. there's two sides to it.. fergusson effect, yet police really have been overboard.. police being overboard was the "911" effect, when they got militarized after that. And then vets returning from the Iraq war getting into law enforcement and law enforcement took on a military vibe in general -- as if policing in America is like Fallujah, in Iraq.

And the darn tasers.. those things are wrong, and never should have been started. John Kerry famously just stood there and watched while campus police tased a college kid just trying to ask a question. Police just tase people left and right, and there have been tragic deaths from those tasers. Like a polish man in an airport one time, his only crime was he didn't speak english but wasn't violent and they tased him and he died.

I guess I'm mixed on this issue, 50/50. At the end of the day our cops can't be afraid to do their jobs and crime keeps skyrocketing.. yet we have to change something too, to demilitarize them and get them to use A DARN BILLY CLUB and not just shoot people.

This one is a mixed issue, honestly.. both are true, that (a) our police are scared of liability now and don't do their job anymore (who can blame them) yet (b) it really is kind of crazy how many people they had been shooting, I mean seriously over in Russia, as totalitarian and hard right the place is, the police don't do this. In Russia, police will use their fists if they have to or a billy club but they don't gun people down left and right, so we're doing something wrong and it does need fixed yet still do policing too.

Only social issue you missed C8, is DRUGS..

Drugs are rampant now, and out of control. Meth, heroine, etc.

[Cog]

What a brave defender of the powerful and malicious our proud 6S is!

I'm sure if a clothing manufacturer produced baby clothes that spontaneously combusted even though they were presented as perfectly safe, our brave 6S would proudly stand up and fight on behalf of the poor, put-upon manufacturer.

We should all be proud that we have such a paragon, such a shining white knight in our very midst!

Typical dohboi non-sequitur.

Because he can't actually respond the a posters position, he diverts attention to some other position that he says a poster once had. Totally irrelevant dodge.

Nice try, though.

[dohboi]

Nope, I diverted attention to a position that 6S never had!

It's called parody, but some have trouble appreciating this mode of communication.

[onlooker]

Dont worry dohboi, they the defenders of the high and mighty are getting less and less as people wake up to the true realities of this world. Even now they have no arguments so they mock and divert.

[Sixstrings]

What a brave defender of the powerful and malicious our proud 6S is!

I'm sure if a clothing manufacturer produced baby clothes that spontaneously combusted even though they were presented as perfectly safe, our brave 6S would proudly stand up and fight on behalf of the poor, put-upon manufacturer.

We should all be proud that we have such a paragon, such a shining white knight in our very midst!

Typical dohboi non-sequitur.

Because he can't actually respond the a posters position, he diverts attention to some other position that he says a poster once had. Totally irrelevant dodge.

Nice try, though.

I'M JUST BEING A LIBERTARIAN ABOUT IT.

I'm a little Libertarian at my core.

Some things are just wrong, and "means" actually do matter.. "Ends" do not always justify "means," no matter how important and how passionate you are about the "ends" -- whether it's climate change issue or anything else, on the far right they're big into anti abortion so that's a big huge deal for them.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE A RICO RACKETERRING CASE AGAINST PLANNED PARENTHOOD, hm?

That case would have a lot more standing than this big oil one does.

I'm just standing up for principle here doh, I'm saying if the Left goes overboard prosecuting the Right then all the Left is doing is setting precedent for the Right to do the same to them, it's not good man.

The law matters. Prosecutors shouldn't overcharge, things like that.. blaming Exxon for "the planet" is just nuts.

I'm not crazy about millionaires and billionaires either, but you still don't put them on trial for things they they didn't do and it's just a witchhunt.

[dohboi]

"the far left "

Where is this "far left"?

Is there a robust, effective Communist party somewhere that I had failed to notice? That perhaps could be considered 'far left.'

No? How about a major Socialist party, then? Hmmmm....don't see much in that direction either.

How about just a major party that includes the word 'labor' in its title...(hardly an indication of being 'far left' in itself, of course).

No? Not even this low standard? (Well, here in Minnesota, the Dems do go by "Democratic Farmer Labor," but their pretty much all pro-business these days.)

How about a major Green party??? Hmmm?

Most other modern major democracies have such parties as major players.

We have two instead two pro-business parties, one rabid, one not quite as rabid.

But of course the far left has to create boogy men that don't exist like 'far left' threats, just to keep themselves frightened enough to continue spewing their malarkey, do generate energy among their witless minions, and to assure themselves, against all available evidence, that they are heroically struggling against and enormous and malignant force with incredible bravery, surrounded by enemies... It's just tedious and embarrassing to glimpse inside the paranoid mindsets that animate the rabid right.

[dohboi]

No one is prosecuting 'the right' here.

An Attorney General is going after an INDUSTRY the knowingly lied about the harms it knew its products would cause.

But you want to keep repeating your own pet bugbears, so don't let me or reality get in your way.

Carry on.

[Sixstrings]

Dont worry dohboi, they the defenders of the high and mighty are getting less and less as people wake up to the true realities of this world. Even now they have no arguments so they mock and divert.

Well..

I just wonder where it all leads..

Yes climate change action support is growing a bit.. but do all these millenials want jobs? Do they ever want a car, or just keep using the uber app and living off mom and dad's support while blogging about "the planet" and "let's sue Exxon."

Do people really WANT gas to cost $7 or $10 a gallon?

EVEN ALBERTA IN CANADA is scolding us, their premier saying America should realize where the butter on its bread is coming from and it's Alberta tar sands butter.

So whatever man, if the consensus in America becomes far left climate change action superheroes and everyone wants to just use uber and walk and have a bunch of socialism I'm cool with that -- I'm flexible, I can adapt.

Heck, I'm actually voting for Bernie Sanders so how much more socialist can I get.

But if he started harping on some things that really are crossing his old civil libertarian views, if he did that too much, then I'd have to withdraw my support.

I'm just Libertarian lite, that's what I am. I'm not as hard libertarian as a ron paul or rand paul etc and they overuse the atlas shrugged stuff -- but yet that stuff really is true, there's a line there, things could go too far. Like "fergusson effect" stuff, and then business gets sued so much it's just a straw on the camel's back situation and then business is afraid to do business and so much liability and government harassment and probes and inquisitions and then people suing mcdonalds for giving them diabetes and the auto insurance scams and everyone thinks it's a payday if they have a fender bender.

So you see, R's are right about a thing or two.. that's all I'm sayin'..

[dohboi]

"Do people really WANT gas to cost $7 or $10 a gallon?"

Another bugaboo to try to frighten the hoi poloi.

High gas costs do not seem to be an imminent threat right now, if you hadn't noticed.

And, yes, we have to get off of all ff, so ultimately increasing their costs one way or another will likely be part of that. Ideally, other good non-ICE transportation options would be put in place in the mean time.